Live data from Hacker News

Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

medium.com

431–440 of 588 posts

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#431
post #87

"The question then becomes a matter of how we fix this without diminishing access to a college education." This is the crux of it that everyone needs to get over. Universality, High Quality, Low Cost. Pick two. By letting the government meddle you have guaranteed no one can afford college and will be long in debt to a loan they cannot discharge in bankruptcy. I'd rather have cheap college then universal access for ev…

I don't understand why there isn't simply the option of making a lot more colleges. "High Quality, Low Cost, Pick 2" isn't how most markets work.

We do, although they seem to obey a power law distribution in "prestige". California has 116 community colleges (serving 2 million students), 23 campuses of the California State University, and 9+ campuses of the University of California.

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#432
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why there isn't simply the option of making a lot more colleges. "High Quality, Low Cost, Pick 2" isn't how most markets work.

We do, although they seem to obey a power law distribution in "prestige". California has 116 community colleges (serving 2 million students), 23 campuses of the California State University, and 9+ campuses of the University of California.

Community colleges and 4-year colleges aren't the same product. I'm asking why we don't simply have lots and lots more 4-year colleges, if the demand is so high that the prices can skyrocket the way they have.

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#433
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why there isn't simply the option of making a lot more colleges. "High Quality, Low Cost, Pick 2" isn't how most markets work.

We do, although they seem to obey a power law distribution in "prestige". California has 116 community colleges (serving 2 million students), 23 campuses of the California State University, and 9+ campuses of the University of California.

California has more people than Canada yet Canada has more public Universities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_universities_in_Canada

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#434
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too many people are enrolling in College, and this is a problem. The end result in many cases has been lower the standards to get students to graduate. More people need to be geared towards trades and manufacturing jobs. The Covid Pandemic has shown us what happens when you put all your manufacturing in one country.

> More people need to be geared towards trades and manufacturing jobs. To this, and as we're on hacker news; and bootcamps are proving it for web developers; a bachelor's degree often doesn't prepare students for jobs (and the larger concepts, ethics, systems thinking, etc often come from corporate training just as well)

> larger concepts, ethics, systems thinking, etc

These are what American universities are actually well equipped for.

It's common knowledge that if you graduate with a BS in some engineering topic, you won't have most of the practical skills necessary for your job --- or at least not from your curriculum. However, a good school will teach you how to analyze complicated problems from a number of different perspectives with both theoretical and practical tools. Moreover, all those liberal arts classes they make you take that people complain about will give you the social and cultural context necessary to understand ethical implications that might arise.

Sure, getting a BS from a top engineering school won't tell you the best way to design web pages in 2020, but it should make you a well rounded, capable engineer.

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#435
post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are, of course, absolutely correct. I said the last few decades because that is, again, as you said, the current "phase" we are on. We want universities to be places where ideas from a range of schools of thought mix and are able to be explored openly and without negative repercussions. I don't want the extreme right to own university thought any more than the extreme left. We know the consequences of mono-cultur…

Hey, careful with that "Nazis" label. It implies a lot of things that are a poor fit for politics in the USA. It certainly doesn't just match up with the extreme right. Consider these examples: FDR actually put one ethnicity, the Japanese, in concentration camps. Harvard (proven in court) and others are discriminating against people of Asian ancestry. In 2019, 44% of colleges had segregated graduation, with black-onl…

I meant it more as a time and event marker rather than a comparison or description of US politics.

The point is universities must have balance and promote tolerance. The extremes —either extreme— are undesirable and lead to nothing good for society.

I take the down-voting as evidence of sorts. I am saying we need balance and readers don’t like it. I don’t need to wonder why, I know.

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#436
There was a video on social media of a former student with 80 k$ in debt. After 10 years of payments, amounting to ... (forgot exact number, but way over 10 k$, vaguely recall it being over 50k), she still owed 76 k$. Probably so "low" due to her downpaying 6k last year - that is, she seriously believed it would have been higher otherwise.

I am absolutely convinced you could attend most universities in Northwestern Europe & live there for less than what this student has already paid + currently still owes. Including interest on a loan - as long as you don't get it from the US loan sharks involved in college loans.

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#437
The central claim in TFA is that when the government gives out loans directly, instead of guaranteeing loans made by banks, it's easier for students to get student loans, and therefore college prices go up.

a) Zero evidence is provided in TFA that it is in fact easier for students to get loans under the government program. I could make an equally compelling argument and say, when the private sector provides loans guaranteed by the government, private sector has a monetary incentive to seek out students and pile them high with loans that they can't afford. The loans are guaranteed by the government, so more loaning is direct upside.

In contrast, the government has no incentive to partake of predatory lending! Its incentives are aligned -- and not just on the monetary angle, but also, the government does not succeed if students are stuck in debt forever. Therefore when government gives the loans, incentives are aligned and lending goes down.

I've provided just as much evidence as Andrew. I'm not saying I'm right, but how do we know he is, either?

b) Andrew who?

c) TFA neglects to mention that you can take out up to $5500-7500 in government loans per year as an undergrad. https://studentaid.gov/understand-aid/types/loans/subsidized... If they had, you might have doubted their claim that this is the reason that college costs $50+k/yr.

We are already under this dude's system of "government offers a small, fixed amount in loans and students have to figure it out". Prices are still high and increasing.

It turns out that the high cost of college doesn't have a simple explanation or solution. Who knew.

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#438
Rising college tuition is clear evidence of runaway fiat currency inflation. As soon as the US severed the peg to gold, prices have done nothing but inflate. I think colleges have figured out people are willing to take on increasing amounts of debt. The cost of loaning / creating money to pay for college is zero, so the tuition price ceiling is effectively infinite.

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PhD programs in the US and elsewhere are often not directly comparable. Doing a PhD in the US typically involves 1-3 years still taking classes. Doing one in the UK means starting thesis-forming research immediately. Not really the same thing at all.

Uk is the outlier here.

Not compared to northwestern europe. France, Belgium, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Germany are similar (not the same - similar). Scandinavia probably as well, but i don't have experience there.

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate on the last point?

US states generally have not placed their capitals in their population centers. I'm told some of it is a fear of big city corruption might have on democracy (not without reason, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_machine#In_the_Unite... ). The logic seemed to play out in land grant unis as well, but looking at some history articles about my alma mater, it seems more complicated than "big city bad" -- the big…

Like Ohio State? Michigan?
Post reply on HN