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Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

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Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#161

Post by michaelchisari »

fastaguy88 wrote: post #91

It is difficult to overstate how mistaken this article is. College has mostly gotten more expensive because state support for public universities has dramatically decreased, from over 80% in the 1970's to less than 20% now. Since the taxpayer no longer pays for public higher education, the student does. The logic of this made some sense at the time; very high tuition subsidies were a gift to the upper middle and uppe…

What also works against the idea of subsidies being the culprit is that it's not just universities that have seen this cost inflation.

The community college in the town I grew up in was $17 a credit hour in 1997. Adjusted for inflation, that's $26.17 a credit hour. A 4 credit hour class would cost $104.68. That's something many working people could cover to take a class here and there to further themselves or their job prospects. There were subsidies for those who couldn't afford that as well.

That same community college today? $132 a credit hour. That's a 500% increase over inflation.

This isn't being talked about because university costs affect middle and upper-middle class people more, so pundits and the media are going to be more affected.

But this gross inflation has definitely pushed working class and poor people out of the classroom and that's a terrible thing for society at large.

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#162

Post by baconandeggs »

fastaguy88 wrote: post #91

It is difficult to overstate how mistaken this article is. College has mostly gotten more expensive because state support for public universities has dramatically decreased, from over 80% in the 1970's to less than 20% now. Since the taxpayer no longer pays for public higher education, the student does. The logic of this made some sense at the time; very high tuition subsidies were a gift to the upper middle and uppe…

> the price has gone up because students are responsible for more of the cost.

That is not how prices work, the prices can't go up if the only buyers have no money.

The price went up because they got access to credit. To government mandated credit.

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#163

Post by [deleted] »

fastaguy88 wrote: post #91

It is difficult to overstate how mistaken this article is. College has mostly gotten more expensive because state support for public universities has dramatically decreased, from over 80% in the 1970's to less than 20% now. Since the taxpayer no longer pays for public higher education, the student does. The logic of this made some sense at the time; very high tuition subsidies were a gift to the upper middle and uppe…

[deleted]

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#164

Post by thatcat »

robomartin wrote: post #80
noetic_techy wrote: post #34

"The question then becomes a matter of how we fix this without diminishing access to a college education." This is the crux of it that everyone needs to get over. Universality, High Quality, Low Cost. Pick two. By letting the government meddle you have guaranteed no one can afford college and will be long in debt to a loan they cannot discharge in bankruptcy. I'd rather have cheap college then universal access for ev…

Here's a potentially simple way to perhaps shave as much as 25% or more from the cost of STEM degrees in the US: Eliminate all non-STEM coursework from degree requirements. This could easily shave not only tens of thousands of dollars from a STEM degree but it would also cut it down by a year (if not more). I would also vector students who lack the proper foundation in say, language skills or the sciences, to take co…

Many of the stem subjects would be easier to automate the instruction of and are taught by researchers who would prefer not to be teaching - making some portion of the in person lectures at research universities for stem of limited value.

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#165

Post by j45 »

noetic_techy wrote: post #34

"The question then becomes a matter of how we fix this without diminishing access to a college education." This is the crux of it that everyone needs to get over. Universality, High Quality, Low Cost. Pick two. By letting the government meddle you have guaranteed no one can afford college and will be long in debt to a loan they cannot discharge in bankruptcy. I'd rather have cheap college then universal access for ev…

The "pick two" argument tends to hold weight if there's no way to execute anything better.

Innovation is finding ways to do things faster, better, and quite often (in the long run generally) cheaper. It's the nature of disruption.

For education.. it seems mighty suspicious that we can't create better ways of delivering curriculum that doesn't change often... but in social media we can pump out so much digital information of the latest happenings (or opinions/interpretations) that it can overwhelm the senses and brain and become fact.

But, what do non-academics know. And what do academics know about the capabilities and possibilities of tech.

The next year will be extremely interesting for experts and leaders to show, instead of tell or talk.

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#166

Post by giantrobot »

pb7 wrote: post #107
btilly wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Employers are allowed to test students to see what they can do, but not evaluate them based on whether they went to school or where. For those who are unaware, these tests are considered a violation of the Civil Rights Act because they result in hiring blacks at a much lower rate than whites. A big underlying cause of that is that schools with lots of blacks are underfunded relative to schools with lots of whites. Ma…

Most students graduate with no assets so what would stop someone from graduating and declaring bankruptcy before they begin working? Would that not reduce the ease in getting student loans since banks would be reluctant to loan to someone that doesn't have a wealthy cosigner, effectively eliminating poorer people from attending?

You don't declare bankruptcy like Michael Scott by just yelling into a hallway. If college loans could be discharged, your fresh grad example still has to convince a court to discharge the loan. That's not likely to happen unless they also managed to rack up many tens of thousands of dollars in unsecured debt. No one is going to give a 22 year old that much unsecured credit so it would be pretty obvious they're trying to game the system.

At best they could attempt loan restructuring but even that would probably not be worth it. Student loans really don't need the bankruptcy protection they have. It's created a huge problem for a whole generation of adults that have been fucked over by three separate recessions in a twenty year span.

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#167

Post by the_af »

darth_avocado wrote: post #119

Why not move from a pre-paid to a post-paid system? The government stops writing blank cheques. The students enroll for free, signing a 30-year mortgage like contract, that would say pledge 1% of your post tax earnings to the school/university you went to. Universities will then have incentives to remove the programs that don't have as much of a use in the modern day and age, and add the ones that are needed. The gov…

> Universities will then have incentives to remove the programs that don't have as much of a use in the modern day and age

Out of curiosity, can you name some examples of programs that in your opinion don't have much of a use today?

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#168

Post by lordnacho »

georgeecollins wrote: post #127
Dannymetconan wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Universities in Europe are generally high quality and low cost. It does have it's problems but it is not one or the other. You do not need a degree 30 years ago to do lots of jobs that now require one. Higher education for a lot of organizations is just an easy way to cut the application stack down

Are Universities in Europe really that high quality? Certainly some are, but as a parent researching schools I have been really surprised by how many European colleges are a bit mediocre by the criteria I was evaluating. For example, Spain and Italy have some of the oldest colleges in the world. But in many ways there are four or five colleges in California that are better, four or five colleges in Texas, and across…

My issue with the rankings is how they emphasise research. Why would it matter to an undergraduate how highly decorated his prof is? We used to joke that the more titles a guy had, the worse he was at teaching. I think this is true because the guys with the titles have moved on to managing research and finding funding, rather than having daily tasks to do with the research.

I went to a very well known university that's known for giving tutorials with just a couple of students, and this always seemed to be the case. Top prof = doesn't have time or motivation to teach.

If you look at it, everything you do in undergrad is fairly well known anyway. There's no reason why a course at one uni would be much different from another, the fields have decided long ago what is and isn't important.

What might affect your kid is what peers they end up with. If you go to a top uni, people are used to doing well and tend to come from backgrounds that allow them to succeed.

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#169

Post by jeremyjh »

nottorp wrote: post #99
davinic wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could also stop this degree inflation by requiring a $15 minimum wage on all jobs but a $25 minimum wage when the job lists a bachelor's degree requirement (applied based on whether the job requires a degree, not whether the employee has a degree).

That would mean those philosophy students wouldn't be able to get a job at McDonalds :)

No, the proposal it is based the job's requirements, not the student's credentials.

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#170

Post by ntsplnkv2 »

thatcat wrote: post #156
ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

29k in debt is the deal - that's the average of a graduating class, so people ARE finding ways to provide for their needs and go to school and come out with 29. *Assuming these numbers are accurate - I'm not here to get into a statistical debate on the numbers. But assuming that number is accurate.

What's the variance in the set? how do you know it's not bimodal with many students having scholarships or parent paid tuition, food, and board; then other students mostly graduating with 50k plus debt?

In my less than complete research it seems the ranges are based from 27k-37k. Either way, that doesn't seem to to bad.

So based on that number being relatively true, is that too high? Why is that too high?

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