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Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy

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Re: Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy

#181

Post by reddog »

docdeek wrote: post #50
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've never been to Europe, I would really love to go some day, but I can only imagine the feeling of actually seeing these really old places/structures in person. European cities are also relatively young. If you want to see old cities, you should visit the Middle East or China.

The city I live in here in France is about 2000 years old. That might not be as old as some of the cities in the Middle East but relative to most cities it is doing pretty well, non?

Thats 10x older than the city I live in (Austin). But Jericho is 6x older than yours.

Re: Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy

#182

Post by CydeWeys »

reddog wrote: post #173
dylan604 wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Urban sprawl happened because people were tired of living on top of each other, and cities that had the room to expand used it. There was also another name used for that sprawl, white flight. I think we're seeing some of the results of that today.

I've always thought it was funny how whites moving from the city to the suburbs is bad (white flight) and whites moving from the suburbs to the city is also bad (gentrification).

It makes logical sense. You cause problem A by leaving, and then in coming back you cause problem B. The same thing happened with the Iraq War -- we caused lots of problems with the unnecessary invasion, then caused more problems by leaving. It's lose/lose. The only winning move was never to play. In the white flight analogy, the only winning move was never to seek segregation from moving out of the cities in the first place.

Re: Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy

#183

Post by username90 »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #26
apacheCamel wrote: post #10

>Siena’s history dates back millennia. Houston, meanwhile, was founded in 1836. Every time I am made aware of just how young the US is, it blows me away. I've never been to Europe, I would really love to go some day, but I can only imagine the feeling of actually seeing these really old places/structures in person.

> I've never been to Europe, I would really love to go some day, but I can only imagine the feeling of actually seeing these really old places/structures in person. European cities are also relatively young. If you want to see old cities, you should visit the Middle East or China.

China doesn't have a lot of old intact structures though since they used worse building materials than Romans. Age of the city doesn't matter much if all structures are new.

And no, the great wall of China isn't ancient. The parts we see today were built in the 14th century, the parts that are millennia old are no longer there so you can only see traces of it in the ground.

Europe on the other hand has impressive structures 2 millenia old like this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aqueduct_of_Segovia

Re: Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy

#184

Post by ctoth »

xg15 wrote: post #111

> But it wasn’t strictly an “everything is bigger in Texas” ethos that caused Houston to sprawl the way that it does. Rather, Cold War–era urban design philosophy in the U.S. prioritized sprawl because older cities that had urbanized pre–World War II—New York, Chicago, Philadelphia, and Detroit—were seen as being susceptible to nuclear strikes. Less-dense cities such as Los Angeles and Houston were less likely to be…

I remember Heinlein talking a lot about the decentralization of cities concept. A bit of googling leads me to Sumner Spaulding, who was apparently a large proponent of decentralization to avoid nuclear disaster.

http://otworld.weebly.com/robert-a-heinlein-the-last-days-of...

Re: Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy

#185

Post by [deleted] »

apacheCamel wrote: post #10

>Siena’s history dates back millennia. Houston, meanwhile, was founded in 1836. Every time I am made aware of just how young the US is, it blows me away. I've never been to Europe, I would really love to go some day, but I can only imagine the feeling of actually seeing these really old places/structures in person.

[deleted]

Re: Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy

#186

Post by leetcrew »

andi999 wrote: post #176
gpderetta wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also Japan was hit by bombs in the low tens of kilotons. Modern bombs are in the megaton range.

Tsar Bomb has around 50 Megatons. Radius of total destruction 35km.

scary, but not entirely relevant. most modern launch systems carry (sometimes multiple) warheads with a much lower yield: 500 kt or less.

Re: Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy

#187

Post by dylan604 »

reddog wrote: post #173
dylan604 wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Urban sprawl happened because people were tired of living on top of each other, and cities that had the room to expand used it. There was also another name used for that sprawl, white flight. I think we're seeing some of the results of that today.

I've always thought it was funny how whites moving from the city to the suburbs is bad (white flight) and whites moving from the suburbs to the city is also bad (gentrification).

When an area is ceded by one group, the vacuum will always be filled by another group. When the people that left try to reclaim that territory, friction will always happen. If the current occupants of that territory have no desire to relocate , or have no where else to relocate to, or have no means of relocating if it were possible then there will always be friction. It's repeated over and over through out history.

Re: Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy

#188

Post by jacobwilliamroy »

xg15 wrote: post #111

> But it wasn’t strictly an “everything is bigger in Texas” ethos that caused Houston to sprawl the way that it does. Rather, Cold War–era urban design philosophy in the U.S. prioritized sprawl because older cities that had urbanized pre–World War II—New York, Chicago, Philadelphia, and Detroit—were seen as being susceptible to nuclear strikes. Less-dense cities such as Los Angeles and Houston were less likely to be…

Nope. Sprawl happens in places where the oil industry runs city planning. Plus, if people cant survive in your city without a car, then that kills off the poor too and drives them away. So cities sprawl to serve oil companies and to exacerbate wealth inequality.

What, you people dont believe me? You seriously think we sprawl to protect ourselves from nukes? Like the enemy isnt just going to launch more nukes, or cluster nukes?

If anything, the sprawl would just make the nuclear strike worse, because there's a greater chance you'll survive and have to live through revelation. Here's how you protect yourself if a nuke is on the way: you duck your head down, and kiss your ass goodbye.

No it's just plain ole racist, classist, corrupt government trying to use fear of Russians to drive oblivious americans who dont pay attention, to buy more cars from their rich motor company friends.

That government is mostly in the past now, but the sprawl is a monument to their philosophy, which was racist, classist and corrupt.

Re: Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy

#189

Post by wozniacki »

sudosysgen wrote: post #138
maxsilver wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously they haven't, and they remain great options for people wealthy enough to afford Parisian Townhouses. But unless you somehow gift me one million dollars USD or more (and the same to every single person I know), none of us are going to be able to afford to live anywhere in Paris that actually has close access to all of those things you've described, with the living situation described above. If we're magicall…

Scooters, the RER, the SNCF, the bus, the Vélib and the metro, are very cheap and service even poor parts of Paris and the Banlieue pretty well.

There's also this assumption that people in relatively segregated rich areas want to be connected to poorer areas via public transit - the opposite is more often true.

People who wish to live in neighborhoods with low crime often NIMBY off any attempts to add public transit options specifically to keep out the riffraff.

  Marin County is home to over 252,000 residents, yet it is without a BART station. If you search
  web content to find out why that is the case, you will not find a lot. There is minimal information 
  explaining why the BART doesn't connect from Marin to San Francisco and even less explaining why it 
  doesn't connect from the East Bay to Marin.

  Marin funded a large portion of the project when BART was being planned in the 1950s. But "concerns"
  over whether or not the Golden Gate Bridge could support BART suddenly arose. After San Mateo pulled
  out of the plan, Marin's participation fell through as well.

  It is not unfair to speculate that socio-economic discrepancies might have something to do with this 
  lack of transit connection. After all, Marin is the county where wealthy residents stopped George Lucas 
  from building affordable housing on his land. The median household income there is almost $84,000, more 
  than $15,000 more than San Francisco and more than twice as much as Oakland.

  A similar situation in Dayton, Ohio arose where wealthy suburbanites tried to stop the local transit 
  authority from building three new bus stops near major employment centers.[1]
[1] https://www.smartcitiesdive.com/ex/sustainablecitiescollecti...

Re: Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy

#190

Post by rexgallorum2 »

xg15 wrote: post #111

> But it wasn’t strictly an “everything is bigger in Texas” ethos that caused Houston to sprawl the way that it does. Rather, Cold War–era urban design philosophy in the U.S. prioritized sprawl because older cities that had urbanized pre–World War II—New York, Chicago, Philadelphia, and Detroit—were seen as being susceptible to nuclear strikes. Less-dense cities such as Los Angeles and Houston were less likely to be…

I would argue the bomb was only part of it though--the other hazard was area bombing. All of those planners had seen (or participated in) the aerial bombardment of Europe and Japan during the war, and one take-away was that areas with different uses should be separated (like in the sim game Cities Skylines), e.g. industrial zones should be separate from residential zones, and all of the above should be as sprawling and low-density as possible to minimise damage from the air, be it nuclear or conventional. And yes the US highway system started out as a civil defense project as well, modelled on the German 'Autobahnen'.
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