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Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy

texasmonthly.com

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Re: Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy

#131

Post by johnisgood »

oblio wrote: post #61
crmrc114 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have lived in walking cities, I prefer to have a car. I can enjoy my own music or podcast- my own schedule in the case of mass transit. I can also enjoy my own aircon and heat settings. I know lots of people want to bike/walk everywhere- that is just not for me. I think this comes up everytime someone talks about urban planning here. Some people just have no interest in living within high density areas- I am one of…

Tragedy of the commons, though. Your immediate best interest might be bad for the community.

Well, in all fairness, s/he did say:

> I prefer to have a car.

> I like being able to use a telescope and not hear cars.

So I am not sure s/he cares much about the commons. :D

Re: Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy

#132

Post by ebg13 »

maxsilver wrote: post #124
crispyambulance wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> assumption that _everyone wants to be stacked on top of each other_ It's also an assumption that everyone wants to begin and end every trip, no matter how trivial, with a parking spot. It's an assumption that people will want to drive in traffic for 20 minutes minimum to get to a supermarket, do anything with their kids, or anything outside their property line. The notion of "stacked on top of each other" has unple…

> Would you feel "stacked on top of each other" in a Parisian townhouse with a magnificent shared courtyard, 12 foot ceilings, and everything you could possibly want a short walk or subway ride away? No, I wouldn't feel "stacked on top of each other" if I were a multi-millionaire in Paris. But, in the real world, your talking about putting families into 600sqft (at very best) boxes, with audible neighbors on every si…

> no way to go anywhere (no parking, no meaningful transport, because 'everything we'd let you have is a short walk away')

It's news to me that the Paris Bus, Tram, Metro, RER, SNCF, Velib, and the venerable scooter have all suddenly vanished.

Re: Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy

#133

Post by Udik »

The comparison is entirely pointless. There are interchanges in Italy that are of comparable size; just outside my home town, there are medium-sized factory buildings that are larger than its entire historical center, complete with its 13th century frescoed palaces. The area of the Sistine Chapel - 560 m^2- is easily dwarfed by that of most small supermarkets.

The fact is that- unless scarce- space is valued- no, wait, it's defined- by what it contains and by your relation to it, not by its size. When traveling on a motorway you cross multiple times per second the entire length of your living room, a space where a centimetre-sized stain can give you nightmares. This beauty in the Netherlands ( https://www.spoorpro.nl/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/maasvlakt... ) is more or less the size of Manhattan. The Mona Lisa painting is smaller than the patch in your backyard where you keep your garbage cans. And so?

Re: Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy

#134

Post by maxsilver »

ebg13 wrote: post #132
maxsilver wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Would you feel "stacked on top of each other" in a Parisian townhouse with a magnificent shared courtyard, 12 foot ceilings, and everything you could possibly want a short walk or subway ride away? No, I wouldn't feel "stacked on top of each other" if I were a multi-millionaire in Paris. But, in the real world, your talking about putting families into 600sqft (at very best) boxes, with audible neighbors on every si…

> no way to go anywhere (no parking, no meaningful transport, because 'everything we'd let you have is a short walk away') It's news to me that the Paris Bus, Tram, Metro, RER, SNCF, Velib, and the venerable scooter have all suddenly vanished.

Obviously they haven't, and they remain great options for people wealthy enough to afford Parisian Townhouses.

But unless you somehow gift me one million dollars USD or more (and the same to every single person I know), none of us are going to be able to afford to live anywhere in Paris that actually has close access to all of those things you've described, with the living situation described above.

If we're magically exceptionally lucky, at best we might get like one or two.

Re: Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy

#135

Post by [deleted] »

maxsilver wrote: post #134
ebg13 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no way to go anywhere (no parking, no meaningful transport, because 'everything we'd let you have is a short walk away') It's news to me that the Paris Bus, Tram, Metro, RER, SNCF, Velib, and the venerable scooter have all suddenly vanished.

Obviously they haven't, and they remain great options for people wealthy enough to afford Parisian Townhouses. But unless you somehow gift me one million dollars USD or more (and the same to every single person I know), none of us are going to be able to afford to live anywhere in Paris that actually has close access to all of those things you've described, with the living situation described above. If we're magicall…

[deleted]

Re: Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy

#136

Post by sudosysgen »

xg15 wrote: post #111

> But it wasn’t strictly an “everything is bigger in Texas” ethos that caused Houston to sprawl the way that it does. Rather, Cold War–era urban design philosophy in the U.S. prioritized sprawl because older cities that had urbanized pre–World War II—New York, Chicago, Philadelphia, and Detroit—were seen as being susceptible to nuclear strikes. Less-dense cities such as Los Angeles and Houston were less likely to be…

I'm very doubtful it would have worked. The USSR had thousands of warheads, they could turn the entirety of every city into glass. I'm even quite doubtful this was a consideration.

Re: Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy

#137

Post by ebg13 »

maxsilver wrote: post #134
ebg13 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no way to go anywhere (no parking, no meaningful transport, because 'everything we'd let you have is a short walk away') It's news to me that the Paris Bus, Tram, Metro, RER, SNCF, Velib, and the venerable scooter have all suddenly vanished.

Obviously they haven't, and they remain great options for people wealthy enough to afford Parisian Townhouses. But unless you somehow gift me one million dollars USD or more (and the same to every single person I know), none of us are going to be able to afford to live anywhere in Paris that actually has close access to all of those things you've described, with the living situation described above. If we're magicall…

I lived in the center of Paris for years on a few Altairian dollars per day, and you're being ridiculous. Rental prices in Paris proper, not even the banlieue, are about the same per foot as Cambridge/Somerville/Boston while being an overall nicer place to live.

Re: Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy

#138

Post by sudosysgen »

maxsilver wrote: post #134
ebg13 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no way to go anywhere (no parking, no meaningful transport, because 'everything we'd let you have is a short walk away') It's news to me that the Paris Bus, Tram, Metro, RER, SNCF, Velib, and the venerable scooter have all suddenly vanished.

Obviously they haven't, and they remain great options for people wealthy enough to afford Parisian Townhouses. But unless you somehow gift me one million dollars USD or more (and the same to every single person I know), none of us are going to be able to afford to live anywhere in Paris that actually has close access to all of those things you've described, with the living situation described above. If we're magicall…

Scooters, the RER, the SNCF, the bus, the Vélib and the metro, are very cheap and service even poor parts of Paris and the Banlieue pretty well.

Re: Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy

#139

Post by paganel »

ucarion wrote: post #110
adolph wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Some of Haussmann's critics said that the real purpose of Haussmann's boulevards was to make it easier for the army to maneuver and suppress armed uprisings; Paris had experienced six such uprisings between 1830 and 1848, all in the narrow, crowded streets in the center and east of Paris and on the left bank around the Pantheon. These critics argued that a small number of large, open intersections allowed easy contr…

This is pretty widely thrown around, but it should be noted that the central purpose of Haussmannization was public health and beautification: tearing down the slums, building proper infrastructure like sewers and aqueducts, and pretty parks and streets. The article you link to emphasizes this. The wide boulevards did very little to prevent the Paris Commune, for instance. Napoleon III just wanted to build a second R…

The wide boulevards certainly helped the French Army in drowning the Commune in blood soon afterwards, though.

Re: Interchange in Houston is the same size as an entire city center in Italy

#140

Post by Nitrolo »

davegauer wrote: post #130
alpineidyll3 wrote: post #116

These highways suck to drive on and have as much delay as Illinois highways half the surface area. Its one of my least favorite parts about tx. The reason is largely that they just scaled up traffic patterns which are fine for 2 lanes to 6-7 lanes. It's absurd. The local legend in Austin is that the highway designer later committed suicide. I bike to work.

I heard the same suicide tale about The Stack when I lived in Phoenix. I wonder if this is a common urban legend? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Stack

I'm almost certain it is. There's a housing project in Rome that has the same tale, apparently the architect killed himself after seeing it completed.

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corviale

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