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Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

macrumors.com

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Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#921

Post by nogabebop23 »

geocar wrote: post #872
renaudg wrote: post #858

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"if Apple was OK with displaying a 30% Apple tax on checkout" Do you know any store that adds a line showing their margin on the customer receipt ?

"How dare my corner grocery they charge me a “store tax” without displaying the amount of money they make for operating the shop, handling customer requests and complaints, and so on... I mean seriously people, do you not realise the words you use also affect the way you think about things and not just the other way around?

The private company that sells me electricity has to charge all sorts of fees that are mandated by the various levels of government that regulate the market. These are not taxes but admin fees, riders and right-of-ways, each dutifuly detailed as a line item. Is this not exacxtly what Apple does to anyone who wants to reach a big market?

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#922

Post by nogabebop23 »

veilrap wrote: post #601
Aeolun wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I bought a $1000 device, but somehow Apple gets to decide what I run on it? I just cannot see how that is a desireable situation.

I bought a $1000 device because Apple gets to decide what can run on it. I like iOS, and I like that Apple provides a great user experience on the device. I was not in any way coerced into buying said device, and there are a plethora of other options for substitute devices had I wanted more control of what runs on the device, which I do not.

Why can't you still use the app store with it's curation and filtering, and 30% tax if you want, while others skip it and pay 30% less or the money goes to the developer?

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#923

Post by xuki »

cwhiz wrote: post #513
nvrspyx wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, these statistics are for phones shipped, not current active users of said phones. It's well known that iPhone users tend to hold on to their phone for longer before upgrading compared to Android users, who often switch phones much earlier. You need to look at operating-system market share based on active users(e.g. web tracking), not "who upgraded their phone this quarter". In that regard, Apple has over 56% m…

With this line of reasoning Epic has a monopoly on the Fortnite store. It’s a really absurd interpretation of competition law.

Walmart has a monopoly of Walmart's shelves. /s

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#924

Post by mcejp »

fabioyy wrote: post #470

Most of the comments defending apple, are people thinking that epic games does not want pay the 30% cut... but the problem is not that.. the problem is that apple demands that the price must be equal on all points of sale. ( Epic should be able to increase their price in 30% on apple plataform only, to cover apple fee )

I've heard the same, but I'm not able to find this clause in the Guidelines: https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#in-...

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#925

Post by pier25 »

abc-xyz wrote: post #860
AsyncAwait wrote: post #841

I don't think Epic is doing anything but trying to pocket more for themselves, yet I also think that the comments here overstate how "aware" average people are about Apple's restrictions, tax etc. I don't think most people would consider direct payment to reputable companies like Epic to be a particular security risk. I don't think most realize why they can't subscribe to Spotify from their iPhones, they think it's s…

> All the comments saying "just buy an Android" ignore the simple fact that you buying an Android does not change the fact that a significant portion of the market is elsewhere. All the comments saying “just allow side-loading apps/third-party stores and let people decide themselves” ignore the fact that by doing so then iOS will end up with the same virus/malware issues that you see on Windows and Android. Suddenly…

MacOS is open and doesn't have those issues.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#926

Post by pier25 »

_qulr wrote: post #387

My feeling is that this whole situation is mostly going as Tim Sweeney intended. He was itching for a fight, wanted to sue Apple. The harsher that Apple retaliates, the better Epic's court case. Apple is playing right into his hands. Did Sweeney anticipate Apple's threat to Unreal Engine? Maybe, maybe not. But the temporary restraining order did block that threat, at least for now. I don't think Epic ever intended to…

I agree.

I think Epic doesn't care much about losing iOS and MacOS. Epic wants to bring public attention to the issue and reiterate the idea that Apple is against the gamer community but Epic is fighting for them.

In either case Epic wins. They wouldn't have gotten into this otherwise.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#927

Post by mcejp »

laingc wrote: post #758
marcosscriven wrote: post #751

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I consider my iPhone to be a computer. It’s possible for some middle ground here. If there’s an alternative distribution method, you wouldn’t have to use it. And it’s of course possible that a lower commission is enforced. Finally, the biggest issue here is Apple’s extreme power in being able to completely destroy software companies. I don’t think that’s right, personally.

I want a platform that both I and my 72-year-old father can use without concern that he might be phished into downloading another App Store. Billions of iPhone sales show that people clearly want the same. If you want a top-end device with a widely used OS where you can install a thousand app stores, you can have one. Any one of a dozen major phone manufacturers will be happy to sell you an Android device. You might…

> Billions of iPhone sales show that people clearly want the same.

It could as well be showing that they are only willing to endure the same. The truth is - we cannot know, since an iPhone cannot be bought without the App Store and vice versa.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#928

Post by xigency »

systemvoltage wrote: post #404
cnst wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm actually happy Apple didn't make a small concession. I can't quite have the resources to sue Apple by myself as a small user being prevented from using the device I have paid for the way I see fit. I'm very glad that EPIC is doing it on my behalf. I'm also kind of glad that Apple didn't simply cut a backroom deal with EPIC, but is instead going the full-monty on this.

I share a different view on this. I want Apple to have as much control over as they can to keep my device safe. Obviously, this is an unpopular opinion on HN - part of me wants it super hackable and open source (my hacker self), but my average joe self wants is as tied down, closed doors as possible to avoid sniffing off my personal data, usage patterns, cookies, and a whole bunch of "soft metrics" about my device to…

> Why is this good? Because dev will go back to using browser apps to provide services and the browser itself is a nice sandbox to keep the riffraff out.

Just so you know, a lot of us would like to develop our software as browser apps, but Apple has deliberately and intentionally limited the capabilities of browser on iOS devices to ensure that developers continue to develop native apps.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#929

Post by ClumsyPilot »

vr46 wrote: post #882
paulgb wrote: post #869

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a company like Spotify sells subscriptions both in the app and on the web, they have to charge 43% more to the in-app purchaser to get the same revenue, even though the user gets exactly the same experience. I would call that a tax (informally; I know it strictly doesn't meet the definition) and as a customer I would like to know about it.

As a Spotify subscriber, I don’t really care, because it’s their job to handle their overheads, in the same way that John Lewis on Oxford Street pays different rent to John Lewis in Kingston (probably) but the prices stay the same. Cost of doing business is a thing. Capex and Opex are well-understood by businesses, or should be. If the Spotify web store is more profitable than the Spotify iOS store, because Apple wan…

> "If the Spotify web store is more profitable than the Spotify iOS store, because Apple wants ITS CUSTOMERS to get the same deal"

I am surprised how this unprecedented practice is not widely discussed - I am not aware of any situation in real life where you rent a store and you are told you cannot charge what you want.

There are established limits on what a contract can enforce, an outrageous terms are not considered valid in court. For instance a phone operator could not have penalty of £10,000 for a going over your credit.

I believe this term should be considered outrageous - if apple wants to charge 100% tax, thats fine, but their customers will pay 100% more and then they might have questipms for Apple.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#930

Post by sbuk »

_qulr wrote: post #523
mattmanser wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't see how Epic wins this. If Stripe can claim Wells Fargo doesn't want to process porn payments, and that's legal, how can an American court rule for Epic? Epic are obviously going to lose, and lose hard, or set a precedent that's going to screw every payment provider in America and open a flood gate for fraudulent payments. You can't force someone to sell something they don't want to, especially because Apple…

The iPhone is not a store. The App Store is a store. Epic wants to be on the iPhone, but not necessarily in the App Store. Ideally, Epic wants to run its own store on the iPhone. In any case, App Store is the only store in town, where the "town" is the 1.5 billion iOS users. If there's only 1 store, with no competing stores, that's an entirely different situation legally.

Why do they have a right to be on the platform?
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