Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#461

Post by dwaite » Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 12:36 AM UTC

kbenson wrote: post #353

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tim Sweeney may be a wonderful man who loves open platforms, apple pie, and kittens, but: - Android is clearly more open than iOS, but Epic is also suing Google. So is this really about sideloading? From that suit, it sure doesn't sound like it. - When you do sideload Fortnite on your Android device, from what I understand, you can't actually sideload Fortnite directly. Instead you have sideload... the Epic Games Sto…

> Instead you have sideload... the Epic Games Store! There are many levels to compete with Apple on, since they have decided to entrench themselves on every level. Epic is not competing with Apple on an Apple basis, where Apple doesn't want to allow a specific type of app (e.g. a browser with a different engine), they are competing with the App Store (which is how Apple ensures their App level advantage, and that you…

> which is how Apple ensures their App level advantage, and that you can't ship your own browser engine.

To be clear, you can't ship your own JIT, including a Javascript runtime, because Apple does not give TestFlight or App Store distributed apps the ability to mark memory pages executable.

iOS supports two different app platforms, native apps via the App Store and HTML/Javascript/WebAssembly via Safari. One reason Safari exploits work is that the sandboxing and entitlements for Safari (and the WebKit/JavaScriptCore processes) are different from any other app.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#462

Post by croes » Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 12:36 AM UTC

acomjean wrote: post #331

brentis wrote: post #320

As an app developer, I'm moving to straight web apps. All the hoops, the review system,and ranking prejudice makes it an easy decision even outside of the 30% rake.

Lamentably, I think on iOS the only web browser is safari (or uses the safari engine), which hopefully doesn't limit the web app route too much.

If it threatens their app store they will limit web apps.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#463

Post by dang » Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 12:36 AM UTC

dang wrote: post #181

All: these Epic vs. Apple threads, and $BigCo vs. $BigCo threads in general, have unfortunately been seeing more name-calling, accusations of manipulation, flamebait/unsubstantive posts, and other things that break the HN guidelines. If you comment, can you please avoid that? Reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html would help. The idea here is: if you have a substantive point to make, make it thoug…

This is a stub comment to collect the replies so we can collapse them, to prevent offtopicness. Sorry, no-JS users.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#464

Post by mantap » Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 12:37 AM UTC

user5994461 wrote: post #114

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Epic Games doesn't get it's way will China give Apple the boot? Are we watching a cold war unfold in front of our eyes?

Highly unlikely, the iPhone is very common and a major status symbol in China. People making up the government are not gonna ban their phones (or their son's and daughter's iPhones, considering the 70 year old politicians might not be strong users of smartphone themselves).

China is acutely aware that banning the iPhone is likely to send Apple into meltdown and by extension the US stock market and presidency. If they perceive that to be in their political interests then they will do it, otherwise they won't.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#465

Post by fabioyy » Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 12:37 AM UTC

ngcc_hk wrote: post #422

hamandcheese wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Customers are being used as cannon fodder here. Just because Epic stands to make an extra buck or two doesn't mean that their incentives are not aligned with small developers and consumers in this particular moment.

They are not. You cannot assume App Store service if all the income I meant all go to the developer only. If they fight for a lower cut may be. But 0! No.

I don't think you understood what apple does. apple is forbidding Epic Games to offer "discount" outside apple platform. the price must be equal on all points of sale.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#466

Post by croes » Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 12:37 AM UTC

mrkramer wrote: post #222

Is there any other example in the industry where you can not install and use an application without approval of the operating system creator and maintainer?

No. Imagine Microsoft would try do the same. Inconceivable.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#467

Post by kmonsen » Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 12:38 AM UTC

rumanator wrote: post #377

delhanty wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, supporting a brand as team sports is a thing like supporting a political party as team sports is. HN is, hopefully, better than most places on the internet as there are lots of people willing to decide each issue on its merits, and also recalibrate their positions continually in the light of events,

> Unfortunately, supporting a brand as team sports is a thing like supporting a political party as team sports is. My take is the exact opposite: this episode is an opportunity to air grievances regarding each company, which by themselves have amassed a bunch of reasons for customers and end users to dislike them. There are no good guys in this story, only bad guys whose evilness outstages the other's evilness.

I agree but here is my take: These companies don't deserve this much of your attention or feelings. I have worked for Amazon and Google, and at the end of the day neither is a place with feelings. I have a lot of love for co-workers in both places and was part of some amazing products. I think I would say the same if I ever worked at Apple.

For me, like in others, Apple sure brings up a lot of feelings for some reason. I have gone to from hating to loving to hating to loving. Now I think they are currently on a really good iteration of products and I will use them when it makes sense for me. If they hit a rough patch I will try something else.

As for the 30% cut etc, I can't get emotional about that. There are so much bigger issues in the world. You have democracy, global warming, nculear weapons, war and famine.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#468

Post by sfkdjf9j3j » Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 12:39 AM UTC

akira2501 wrote: post #298

oneplane wrote: post #20

Not sure why people are surprised or consider it giant news. > The court recommended that Epic follow the App Store’s guidelines and policies while the case is in progress – the rules they followed over the past ten years until they created the current situation themselves. Epic refused. Well duh, this is a show match court fight of Epic Games not liking the rules and not getting the special treatment they want. No m…

> No matter what opinion one holds on mobile store rules, they are their rules and so far you have the choice of following them (which is also somewhat iffy) or not being on the store. A valid opinion is that those rules are illegal under current federal statue. Another one is that although they currently aren't, they should be. > Separate the issues and angles and see it for what it is: just a bunch of legal departm…

If it makes you feel better, the tax payer funded courts are only about 0.05% of the annual budget.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#469

Post by not2b » Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 12:39 AM UTC

eganist wrote: post #429

rumanator wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unfortunately, supporting a brand as team sports is a thing like supporting a political party as team sports is. My take is the exact opposite: this episode is an opportunity to air grievances regarding each company, which by themselves have amassed a bunch of reasons for customers and end users to dislike them. There are no good guys in this story, only bad guys whose evilness outstages the other's evilness.

> There are no good guys in this story, only bad guys whose evilness outstages the other's evilness. I'm not a stakeholder in Apple or Epic. I don't possess products from either. That said, I'm inclined to view epic's actions here as closer to civil disobedience, specifically in that epic is playing the long game to prove their opinion that Apple's contractual terms are anti-competitive. Because it maps so effectivel…

More like: Apple is offering a take it or leave it deal. Epic doesn't find it acceptable, and is willing to lose access to the store and take Apple to court. They clearly think that taking a shot at breaking the monopoly is worth it. It isn't civil rights, it's business.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#470

Post by fabioyy » Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 12:39 AM UTC

Most of the comments defending apple, are people thinking that epic games does not want pay the 30% cut... but the problem is not that.. the problem is that apple demands that the price must be equal on all points of sale. ( Epic should be able to increase their price in 30% on apple plataform only, to cover apple fee )