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Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

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Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#961

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have done exactly that multiple times. For example, the app Tusky has a hardcoded list of hate-speech instances for which the login is blocked, to just give you one example. Other than that, the instances themselves simply choose not to federate with questionable instances. This happens in an almost organic way where if an instance refuses to block federation with another questionable instance, other instances w…

I asked about the apps that were banned from the play store. Tusky is still available on play store. Maybe their hardcoded list of hate-speech instances were enough for Google to keep them on the play store?

Fedilab and Husky are still available in the play store too.

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#963
post #95

It always starts like that. People agree to very sensible things. Like hate speech is bad and it’s not censorship if it’s not mandated by the government. Eventually the definition of hate or whatever it is that’s offensive is very removed from the original meaning, and now we all bear the brunt of the sensible people who with best intentions wanted to make things better.

This is like having a bulletin board in your store and not being able to take anything down from it. Yes, Google and Apple are big. You can say well, it’s different because in this world there’s only two boards for the entire country, that’s true! But it’s not a censorship problem, it’s an antitrust problem.

the real problem here is that we allow google, apple or facebook to control public discourse. we let companies decide what we are allowed to talk about.

regardless of wheter we agree with what's being removed or not, this can't be healthy.

i am not american, so my interpretation may be off, but here is how i understand the problem:

many people would like hatespeech to go away. jet the US constitution prohibits government censorship, so the government can't do much about it. instead they rely on companies like google and facebook to do the work for them.

the companies are also compelled by public pressure to do what the government can't.

contrast that to germany, where hatespeech like the promotion of nazi ideas is outright illegal.

while i haven't verified this, this puts less pressure on companies to censure anything that isn't mandated by law.

public demands for the control of speech can also more easily b etranslated into law, so that the public doesn't need to resort to pressuring companies. on the contrary, they expect the government to protect them from companies that act in bad faith.

it is hard to say which system is better. if there were many small companies each making different decisions about public discourse, then things would be fine.

the problem is not so much the removal of outright hatespeech, but the more subtle influence in for example what is allowed to be posted about the covid epidemic, or other sensitive topics like political opinions, fact checking and all that.

as it stands, i prefer that decisions about what speech is allowed is controlled by law such that we can use legal means to combat abuse.

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#964
post #523
post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sort of decision by Google does make me rather uncomfortable (the entire situation is uncomfortable... https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/12/20691957/mastodon-decentr... ). But it's worth understanding why the situation may be a bit more complicated than is described above. What seems to be happening is not an absolute ban on Fediverse apps , but a ban on specific implementations that make it easy to join specific…

Are you saying the banned apps promote banned sites, or merely don't block banned sites? There's a huge difference.

“Banned sites”. How short-sighted

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#965
post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not deeply versed in Gab's history... But lets hypothetically say that Gab was not created for that purpose, but for precisely the purpose it claims it was created for: To be an open platform for free speech, no censorship. Wouldn't it have ended up in the exact same state it is now? Any service that guarantees no censorship is going to have the majority of its userbase be the runoff from other major websites. Wh…

Gab bans people openly and credulously discussing marxism. I have experimented with and experienced this directly. So, it fails my litmus test for "an uncensored platform." And it's a bit comical, because Gab as a community experience is much smaller (in my perspective) from even weird sites like minds or funky social blockchain plays. Why they felt the need to ban discusions of marxism or a general strike is beyond…

Likely because the intended audience is not people who see it as a viable alternative or something worth even entertaining. The irony of the situation being someone took the time to make their own platform for like minded individuals, and people in other spaces who've been known to tow the "you're free to make your own platform" line get extraordinarily bent out of sort when people actusally go and do just that.

The hilarious part being that by having the censorship in the first place and not just letting folks work it out amongst themselves, you just increase the echo chamber factor, which at some point, you have to come to terms with in real life on the basis these people exist in the real world. The very act of technically enforced societal marginalization in and of itself is an "extremism" amplifier/polarization catalyst. What confuses me is why I feel like I'm the only one who regularly brings it up. It's not that hard of a realization to reach From first principles. Especially if you spent any time in your life as a social misfit.

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#966
post #344
post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google is global. First amendment is purely an american concept. Not really helpful for global content moderation discussions.

They can have and do have regional app stores.

Did google remove fediverse apps only from the US app store? If not, it’s not clear to me how the first amendment is relevant to this discussion.

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#967
post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of countries only said they were trying for "equal outcomes" while rather openly being authoritarian states.

I'm confused about this response. A powerful authority is how you enforce those "equal outcomes." You can have authoritarian left (communism) or authoritarian right (fascism), but both are authoritarian. Let me put it this way: Fascism is authoritarianism but authoritarianism isn't fascism. Edit: Can someone explain the downvotes? Is the argument that there isn't an authoritarian left? I'm referring to this basic mod…

Once you have a strong central authority, you are not equal by definition. The stronger and more centralized the power is, the easier it is for the ruling class to pass the status to their kids. So ambitious people won't dream of starting companies and changing the world. Their only route to success will be to join the party ladder and play political games. USSR in a nutshell.

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#968

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no reason to give these censorious companies extra legal protections no other publisher has if they are censoring society. Yes, there is a very good reason. Traditional publishers review 100% of content before they affirmatively publish it. User content on most websites are published by automation, and are not reviewed by humans, like this comment.

>User content on most websites are published by automation, and are not reviewed by humans, like this comment. So what? They choose to publish it. They can choose not to. Their own internal business practices don't require society to give them loopholes with which they get out of all liability and abuse the rights of others. It's a good reason to the publisher, its not a good reason for the rest of society.

> So what? They choose to publish it.

Who chose what, exactly?

In western legal systems, laws typically take into account the mens rea of the crime that has taken place.

It is not reasonable to make people guilty by proxy. Someone either did the crime, or they didn’t.

If you own a building, and someone writes a bomb threat on a bathroom stall, are you guilty of a bomb threat?

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#969

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Irrelevant nitpicking. So it's pseudonymous, there is no practical difference.

There’s a huge difference. The government has to let you speak. The corresponding duty on your part is that you won’t do harm (eg., shouting Fire, etC.) That right, and duty, does not exist on a private platform that you don’t own. You are limited by the TOS and license that you, like most, willfully skip over. A private, non-government platform can tell you to STFU and Get Out and they don’t even need a reason, beca…

You must have replied to the wrong comment.

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#970

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar things happened to some android reddit clients a few years ago and it was resolved by removing certain subreddits from menu of pre-filled subreddits. So maybe these apps just need to remove any problematic pre-filled servers.

Subway Tooter does not come with any pre-filled servers, let alone problematic ones.

Subway Tooter is on the Play Store. Dunno if it was reinstated or what.
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