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Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

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Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#501

Post by spenczar5 »

LegitShady wrote: post #477
spenczar5 wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should they be forced to distribute it? That's a pretty extreme stance, and you haven't provided a reason.

They should have to choose between neutral publishing and liability on their networks. If they want to censor then section 230 of the communications decency act should be repealed and let them take ownership of their decisions. As it stands now they get zero liability for speech they can clearly police. I see hate groups in Facebook that Facebook doesn't close if reported. Let them own it

Right, I get that that’s a position you can take, I just don’t see why.

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#502

Post by tachyonbeam »

noworriesnate wrote: post #174
rvz wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. This is Google drawing the line on where this "hate speech" is from and they believe that such "content" can be accessed via the Fediverse. To see how ridiculous this sounds, Google might as well completely take down the entire social media and internet browsing category on the Play Store since I keep seeing the same content from both extremes on all these platforms. Just wait until you tell them to take dow…

I get what you're saying, but I don't think this is because Google cares about hate speech. Google is simply using hate speech as an excuse to get rid of apps that it doesn't like. Deciding which apps you like and which you don't isn't that hard of a line to draw.

Google is politically very very left. I'm guessing that someone at Google may have browsed these apps, decided they didn't like what they saw, and pressured to have the apps banned. Obviously they can't do that to large players like Facebook, but small apps, they can easily crush, and nobody's going to do anything about it.

Image if Google decided to just block certain websites on Chrome, or if big tech got domain registrars to drop 4chan, or whatever humor websites they don't find amusing.

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#503

Post by kikokikokiko »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #404
kikokikokiko wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Google wants to be viewed as a safe harbor, so Google should behave as one and stop deciding what is "hateful". What you/Google/government consider hateful can be what I or the people in Belarus consider the truth. This trend of "censorship for your own good" needs to stop.

I believe all platforms do moderation of some sort. It sounds like what you are proposing is that nobody be allowed to do any moderation. How do you think that would work?

It would work as the internet is supposed to work. Like it worked about until 2015. Slander and libel is punishable under law. This is the way to punish lies and excesses. For the rest, lets just talk, freely, and let the best ideas win.

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#504

Post by pera »

crocodiletears wrote: post #79
angio wrote: post #24

My favorite app is Tusky and is still available from F-Droid [0]. I think Tusky will be fine since they block Gab and so they won't be affected by this ban. [0] https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.keylesspalace.tusky/

Been looking for a good client. Can you disable the block on Gab? I know the place is a cesspool, but I don't like the idea of missing content because an app developer doesn't like an instance.

AFAIK Gab is not federated anymore: they decided to disable communication between other instances some time ago.

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#505

Post by sneak »

agentdrtran wrote: post #260
vorpalhex wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reddit recently dramatically revised their moderation policy and has generally been banning a lot of subs. Reddit very much wants to be a profitable business, and has no problem elimiting non-profitable subreddits. "When your content is too cancerous for church, maybe the issue isn't the church". Feel free to replace church with whatever is appropriate to your situation, but there have always been censors and there w…

This site listes Parler and Voat which have rampant, unchecked antisemitism and racism. I would love to see a non-censorious site that takes hate speech seriously but they don't seem to exist for some reason...

You can’t be non-censorious and also take down hate speech, if that’s what you mean by “takes hate speech seriously”.

You’re either a censor or you’re not. If you want a censored platform, say it; if you want an uncensored site, say that.

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#506

Post by avivo »

humanistbot wrote: post #47

The rationale they gave is that hate speech appears on these apps, because some of the microblogging sites that can be accessed via Fediverse have this kind of content. Based on this rationale, I look forward to Google Play removing Chrome, Firefox, and all other web browsers from the store as well.

This sort of decision by Google does make me rather uncomfortable (the entire situation is uncomfortable... https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/12/20691957/mastodon-decentr...). But it's worth understanding why the situation may be a bit more complicated than is described above. What seems to be happening is not an absolute ban on Fediverse apps, but a ban on specific implementations that make it easy to join specific communities which encourage hatred and real-world violence. Other implementations block these instances, and I believe are not banned.

Whether or not this is a good thing is a complex question. If you happen to be the target of this hatred and violence, and feel it is an existential threat to your livelihood, you might believe that it is a good thing to make it more difficult for those who are engaging in this behavior to enlarge their communities. On the other hand, if you believe eliminating communities by platform fiat is an existential threat to your livelihood, this may seem like a very bad thing.

(You might also think it's hypocritical, since you can access most of these communities via a browser. Google also controls the browser, and does make it difficult already to access some sites https://developers.google.com/safe-browsing/v4 . However, it does seem to have a higher bar for browsers than for social apps (e.g. malware, csam, iirc); some have suggested that there are legal reasons for this, I'm curious to learn more on this, but I have not seen any substantiation yet.)

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#507

Post by john_moscow »

unix_fan wrote: post #480
gamblor956 wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

As a part of a minority, I heavily disagree. The new push for diversity create self doubt. am I really achieving on merit, or just the result of this new social justice movement? I tend to think the people of the left are politicians. They haven’t done much to help me as a student, business owner, or parent. Rather, they just want me to be a victim, someone who they can rely upon to keep themselves employed.

Yep. You know the trick of surviving 10+ years in a corporate managerial position? You pick your subordinates out of slightly underqualified mediocrities. Not only they will be completely helpless without you (let alone, challenge your position), but they will also be infinitely loyal to you, as they won't get another chance under anyone else.

Well, that kind of people now want to run our entire society this way. They want you to be that loyal mediocrity, infinitely thankful for the handout, and supporting their cause without questioning.

Believe me, it's a road to nowhere. Corporate mediocrities end up taking antidepressants for life, or killing themselves after the boss gets fired and they have zero shot at paying that mortgage. The life of self-improvement, hard work and achievement is 1000x more rewarding and I'm glad more people are starting to realize that.

We need more people like you speaking up though. Because virtually every criticism from outside the minorities is now almost unconditionally labeled racist.

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#508

Post by baddox »

pyronik19 wrote: post #495
tshaddox wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does everyone agree on what murder is? Of course not. Does that mean murder should be legal?

Well a bunch of people are running around now saying speech is violence...so in the not too distant future we might be saying someone was murdered by words.

There have always been limitations on freedom of speech, including speech that incites violence. So your example, while deliberately hyperbolic (I don't think anyone would say that words literally murder people), has always been a normal thing.

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#509

Post by felipeko »

SkyBelow wrote: post #302
felipeko wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is allowed under some interpretation of the first amendment. It is not allowed by the first amendement per se.

>under some interpretation This would imply there are interpretations where it isn't allowed even in the cases of the worst most extreme content. Does any organization/group advocate such an interpretation? As far as I'm aware all groups either support an interpretation that allows the government to censor some speech or supports considering some speech as not counting as speech so it can be censored without censorin…

There's nothing intrinsically superior to either SCOTUS or any group or organization's interpretation.

I'm pretty sure you are able to interpret it as not allowing even in the worst and most extreme cases, you just don't want to. There's no need for an argument from authority.

Re: Google is apparently taking down all/most Fediverse apps from the Play Store

#510

Post by LegitShady »

spenczar5 wrote: post #501
LegitShady wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should have to choose between neutral publishing and liability on their networks. If they want to censor then section 230 of the communications decency act should be repealed and let them take ownership of their decisions. As it stands now they get zero liability for speech they can clearly police. I see hate groups in Facebook that Facebook doesn't close if reported. Let them own it

Right, I get that that’s a position you can take, I just don’t see why.

To protect society from technocrat control of speech.
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