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Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

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Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#831

Post by throwaway936482 »

_qulr wrote: post #387

My feeling is that this whole situation is mostly going as Tim Sweeney intended. He was itching for a fight, wanted to sue Apple. The harsher that Apple retaliates, the better Epic's court case. Apple is playing right into his hands. Did Sweeney anticipate Apple's threat to Unreal Engine? Maybe, maybe not. But the temporary restraining order did block that threat, at least for now. I don't think Epic ever intended to…

^^^this. Apple appear to be determined to prove that they are monopolists who will use their monopoly power to screw over devs. While apple probably could have got away with suspending just epics developing account and definitely could have got away with just suspending fortnite, attempting to cripple all devs who use unreal to create their games and other products was an idiotic idea, and a textbook example of abusive monopolistic practices. Also epic, because of fortnites success, are absolutely swimming in money and have other revenu streams on desktop and console that that they can survive and prosper on. They're also tapping into an increasing resentment amongst devs, but also political actors about the amount of power apple et al wield.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#832

Post by AsyncAwait »

veilrap wrote: post #601
Aeolun wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I bought a $1000 device, but somehow Apple gets to decide what I run on it? I just cannot see how that is a desireable situation.

I bought a $1000 device because Apple gets to decide what can run on it. I like iOS, and I like that Apple provides a great user experience on the device. I was not in any way coerced into buying said device, and there are a plethora of other options for substitute devices had I wanted more control of what runs on the device, which I do not.

Ok, so you keep using only the AppStore and we gain the ability to side-load. There's no loss for you and a gain for those who are not happy with the current situation.

It doesn't have to be an either/or.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#833

Post by LexGray »

read_if_gay_ wrote: post #732
JiNCMG wrote: post #714

Earlier quoted context omitted.

App Store takes the same 30% as Xbox, Sony, Switch, Target, Walmart, Walgreen, etc... Purchase a console game at Walmart? Walmart takes their cut after the console creator took their cut. In fact if you think your game is gonna sell like crazy that you press (DVD/BluRay) 1 million copies, you are in debt to the Console manufacturer for their 30%.

Retailers don't get 30%. Not even close. Try 0.5% or something like that. As for MS, their cut on the MS app store is 5%. 30% is just really really steep, and I think consumers would win if that got reduced.

Retail is not the place to compare markup. The lowest markup I saw recommended was 10%. Average was 20-30% and big box was at least 40%. There is no guaranteed win for consumers at all as prices are set what the market will bear.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#834

Post by bambax »

mattmanser wrote: post #504
_qulr wrote: post #387

My feeling is that this whole situation is mostly going as Tim Sweeney intended. He was itching for a fight, wanted to sue Apple. The harsher that Apple retaliates, the better Epic's court case. Apple is playing right into his hands. Did Sweeney anticipate Apple's threat to Unreal Engine? Maybe, maybe not. But the temporary restraining order did block that threat, at least for now. I don't think Epic ever intended to…

I can't see how Epic wins this. If Stripe can claim Wells Fargo doesn't want to process porn payments, and that's legal, how can an American court rule for Epic? Epic are obviously going to lose, and lose hard, or set a precedent that's going to screw every payment provider in America and open a flood gate for fraudulent payments. You can't force someone to sell something they don't want to, especially because Apple…

> The more I think about it the more absurd this is. It's as if some random brand of Mayo is suing Wallmart for not stocking their brand on their shelves.

Yes it is, but they would have a point.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#835

Post by bambax »

veilrap wrote: post #601
Aeolun wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I bought a $1000 device, but somehow Apple gets to decide what I run on it? I just cannot see how that is a desireable situation.

I bought a $1000 device because Apple gets to decide what can run on it. I like iOS, and I like that Apple provides a great user experience on the device. I was not in any way coerced into buying said device, and there are a plethora of other options for substitute devices had I wanted more control of what runs on the device, which I do not.

The solution is to allow multiple app stores. Want the safety that Apple provides? Don't install other stores. Maybe block it in the settings. Want more choice? Install other stores.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#836

Post by neurostimulant »

floatboth wrote: post #827
neurostimulant wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, how could Epic continue developing unreal engine for iOS without a developer account?

Why would they need their own account to just develop the engine? They could use any employee's personal account, or a third party partner company's account, anything

Apple is know to cracking down abuse of developer accounts, so they could ended up playing cat and mouse game with apple. Also, the dev tools are probably licensed in a way that you can't use it legally after getting kicked out of apple dev program. Maybe epic can get around this by divesting unreal engine into a separate company. I think it's already done that (unreal is under epic international), but as apple was considering taking down epic international's account too, maybe that too is not enough.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#837

Post by minusSeven »

rapht wrote: post #825

I have yet to find a compelling anti trust argument. - if anti-trust is about consumer protection (kind of a European perspective), there's no basis. You buy an Apple device knowing full well that the only apps allowed on that device are vetted by Apple. That's hardly new. The rules have not changed. Few exceptions have been made, and I bet those few have been framed by the best lawyers there are to avoid any possibl…

Regulations are for protecting the people and ensuring no monopoly takes place. Just because no laws exist now doesn't mean there shouldn't be. The choice the companies should have is either you follow those regulations or don't sell your product.

As far as I know in Apple ecosystem its very hard to have apps installed in your device if its not in the store. That is not how it should be. It's my phone my decision. It should be like it is on android.

Other countries apart from US should have extensive set of regulations to protect consumers and ensure no monopoly takes place. These regulations should be about what companies are allowed or not allowed to do.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#838

Post by huhtenberg »

qeternity wrote: post #774
werecat wrote: post #668

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is there is no alternative to the App Store on iPhones. Epic Games couldn't open their own Epic Games App Store and sell their games there because Apple has a complete control over how apps can be used and sold on iPhones.

There doesn’t need to be an alternative App Store in iOS. There just need to be alternatives to iOS. This whole “Apple have a monopoly inside their own product” is an absurd line of questioning when their product has anything but a monopoly. This argument is akin to saying that Disney has a monopoly on hotdog sales inside Disneyland and should be forced to allow competitors to open hotdog stands inside Disneyland.

This is not a valid analogy.

I am not renting my phone from Apple, I own it. So when I am buying an instance of Disneyland, being able to install my own hotdog stands is a perfectly reasonable expectation.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#839

Post by LexGray »

SkyPuncher wrote: post #686
mattmanser wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't see how Epic wins this. If Stripe can claim Wells Fargo doesn't want to process porn payments, and that's legal, how can an American court rule for Epic? Epic are obviously going to lose, and lose hard, or set a precedent that's going to screw every payment provider in America and open a flood gate for fraudulent payments. You can't force someone to sell something they don't want to, especially because Apple…

> If Stripe can claim Wells Fargo doesn't want to process porn payments, and that's legal, how can an American court rule for Epic? 1. Stripe is a minor player overall. Lots of other credit card processors 2. Stripe is not preventing you from collecting payments from your customers. You can use a different payment processors.

You can load vBucks directly through the Epic website now. Apple is not preventing that. They are preventing advertising it on device and bypassing their on device payment processing. All Epic needed to do was disable in-app purchases like Netflix did if they wanted to get their money directly. Customer wants to get vBucks. Epic support site says go here. Inconvenient? Certainly. But it is clearly delineated who you are giving money to and how. You are leaving the app ecosystem and entering the open web with the need for additional caution. Short of a warning pop up where you need to type your passcode I would not want less from the current system. Say Epic decides to auto bill you every time you open a loot box?

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#840

Post by amelius »

doggydogs94 wrote: post #378
amelius wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But where is the equivalent of the browser-ballot screen? [1] Why don't we apply the same principle to the App store? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BrowserChoice.eu

There is nothing stopping you from building any open source app with xCode and deploying it to your iPhone.

Just as there was nothing stopping you from installing Firefox for viewing your favorite webpages, before the browser choice screen was introduced.

The problem isn't installing apps. It's installing app-stores: the programs we use for exploring and accessing apps.

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