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Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

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Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#761

Post by kevingadd »

JiNCMG wrote: post #706
ribosometronome wrote: post #569

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using cost of switching as an alternative would seemingly have ramifications that could be applied to almost everything from Fortnite skins to membership stores to video game consoles to state governments.

I have all $1000s invested in XBox platform but I want to play on the PS4. Can I sue MS?

You could always try and find out! Your freedom to take digital purchases (and save data) between different console platforms is a factor here, and historically some platform holders have actively prohibited it and others have not.

Only recently did Destiny 2 gain the ability to transfer save data between platforms. Oddly enough Epic pushed on this kind of freedom too: They wanted PS4 and XBox players to be able to play together, but Sony kept resisting it. They eventually pushed hard on it in public and got concessions so everyone can play the game together now. Now other multiplayer titles from smaller studios also can offer cross-play.

Platform exclusives like a spider-man outfit or playable character are still typically locked to your PlayStation, though.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#762

Post by JiNCMG »

hrktb wrote: post #367
chipotle_coyote wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tim Sweeney may be a wonderful man who loves open platforms, apple pie, and kittens, but: - Android is clearly more open than iOS, but Epic is also suing Google. So is this really about sideloading? From that suit, it sure doesn't sound like it. - When you do sideload Fortnite on your Android device, from what I understand, you can't actually sideload Fortnite directly. Instead you have sideload... the Epic Games Sto…

Two week’s ago’s The Verge coverture was pretty thorough and interesting. Also Epic’s filled surprisingly readable lawsuits, covering your points and more. > from that suit Google’s lawsuit is a different one, with specific arguments. It includes for instance Google blocking makers from directly pre-installing Fortnite on devices, which would be bypassing the Store altogether. > Epic Game Store Not related to the law…

Verge was a fluff piece for Epic. They go on to paint how the monolithic Apple is bad and throwing out Apple's dirty laundry (which is fine) but poor Tim Sweeney is just fighting for justice. Not mentioning his dealings with Silicon Knights, other engine developers and Valve.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#763

Post by jurip »

mattmanser wrote: post #504
_qulr wrote: post #387

My feeling is that this whole situation is mostly going as Tim Sweeney intended. He was itching for a fight, wanted to sue Apple. The harsher that Apple retaliates, the better Epic's court case. Apple is playing right into his hands. Did Sweeney anticipate Apple's threat to Unreal Engine? Maybe, maybe not. But the temporary restraining order did block that threat, at least for now. I don't think Epic ever intended to…

I can't see how Epic wins this. If Stripe can claim Wells Fargo doesn't want to process porn payments, and that's legal, how can an American court rule for Epic? Epic are obviously going to lose, and lose hard, or set a precedent that's going to screw every payment provider in America and open a flood gate for fraudulent payments. You can't force someone to sell something they don't want to, especially because Apple…

Someone commented that it seems unlikely that Epic gets a legal victory out of this, but they may get a legislative victory. It's very possible Apple will win the case, but all the App Store fights that have been in the news more or less every day recently should at least be looked at when the US and EU consider new regulations.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#764

Post by Animats »

mattmanser wrote: post #504
_qulr wrote: post #387

My feeling is that this whole situation is mostly going as Tim Sweeney intended. He was itching for a fight, wanted to sue Apple. The harsher that Apple retaliates, the better Epic's court case. Apple is playing right into his hands. Did Sweeney anticipate Apple's threat to Unreal Engine? Maybe, maybe not. But the temporary restraining order did block that threat, at least for now. I don't think Epic ever intended to…

I can't see how Epic wins this. If Stripe can claim Wells Fargo doesn't want to process porn payments, and that's legal, how can an American court rule for Epic? Epic are obviously going to lose, and lose hard, or set a precedent that's going to screw every payment provider in America and open a flood gate for fraudulent payments. You can't force someone to sell something they don't want to, especially because Apple…

This is new legal territory. I was talking to an Silicon Valley antitrust lawyer today. There are no clear precedents in this area. Whatever is decided here will affect many later cases. So this case is being followed closely by lawyers in the antitrust community.

Is this tying? We don't know. It's not a form of tying that's come up before. That doesn't mean it's not tying. Antitrust law is very general. This case is taking a different path than most antitrust cases. The plaintiff is asking for an injunction. It's not about money damages. It's going to be very interesting.

Tying in general is insisting that customers buy thing B, which they don't want, to get thing A, which they do want. The term "B picture" in movies comes from such an arrangement. Exhibitors had to run B pictures to get A pictures. That was knocked down by a lawsuit from Syufy, who went on to build dome-shaped theaters in Silicon Valley such as the ones near Google HQ. At one time the film studios owned many of their own theaters, which is why you see big old theaters named Warner, Paramount, or Fox. That was ended by an antitrust decision.

Tying cases are rare. You can look them up.[1] They come in many shapes and sizes. Examples of tying include trailer park operators requiring new land lessors to purchase a new trailer from them, similar cases involving marina boat slips and boat maintenance, Visa requiring merchants accepting their credit card to also accept their debit card, telcos requiring or deceptively inducing customers to pay for inside wire maintenance, and the one people here may remember, Microsoft bundling Internet Explorer with Windows.

It is definitely, as the judge said, not a slam dunk for either side.

[1] http://app3.naag.org/antitrust/search/advSearchCivil.php

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#765

Post by Razengan »

dang wrote: post #463
dang wrote: post #181

All: these Epic vs. Apple threads, and $BigCo vs. $BigCo threads in general, have unfortunately been seeing more name-calling, accusations of manipulation, flamebait/unsubstantive posts, and other things that break the HN guidelines. If you comment, can you please avoid that? Reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html would help. The idea here is: if you have a substantive point to make, make it thoug…

This is a stub comment to collect the replies so we can collapse them, to prevent offtopicness. Sorry, no-JS users.

@dang: You previously said in another comment:

> The idea here is: if you have a substantive point to make, make it thoughtfully; if you don't, please don't comment until you do. "Boo $BigCo", "yay $BigCo" fan-v.-antifan cage matches are not curious conversation. We want curious conversation.

If you really desire that, then please consider making some fundamental changes to how HN voting and auto-moderation works.

I just saw a comment pop up and get downvoted into the gray WHILE IT WAS STILL AT "0 minutes ago": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24314105

Currently, every HN mechanism seems designed to make these "conversations" one-sided, where $SideA just gets to pile on $SideB with abandon and all $SideB can do is watch:

• Any user that piles on $PitchforkTarget gets tens of upvotes.

• Any comment that does not pile on $PitchforkTarget gets downvoted, no matter how substantive or thoughtful it is.

• It’s not enough to just not support $PitchforkTarget; simply remaining neutral is enough to get downvoted.

• A few downvotes in a row makes you unable to post anything anywhere on HN for several hours.

All this comes together to say: “When there’s a mob against $PitchforkTarget, join it or stay out of it.”

HN does not allow the "wrong" side a chance to be heard, and punishes users for having the "incorrect" opinion. I am literally afraid to post anything by now on such topics.

This is NOT a conversation, this is an echo chamber.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#766

Post by alanfranz »

The one thing I don't understand about Apple's stance: why don't they let a device owner sideload things SAFELY on their own device? Something like the Apple Developer Account, but for free, and I get a certificate that works on a single device - my own - ONLY.

I still need to understand software development, and probably to own a Mac just to sign things and to upload them to my phone. They could even provide something like a web interface to perform the signing and/or notarization, so people cannot invent magical desktop software to make signing easier for random users.

This would effectively defeat the "walled garden" objection, but make things hard enough that 99.99% of iphone users wouldn't bother.

With the notarization system (is it applied to ios apps as well, I suppose, not just to Mac apps?) they could even prevent piracy.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#768

Post by searchableguy »

dang wrote: post #532
hawkoy wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am really curious how this stub comment functionality works on the backend. How does the dashboard looks dang?

I just did it manually. That is, I posted the stub like I would any other comment, and then used a REPL to move the replies to my top-level comment and make them children of the stub. There's no specific code support beyond that, though I've done it often enough that I've thought maybe I should write something. Does that answer your question?

Yes. I was expecting a dashboard of some kind given you seem to do this often.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#769

Post by [deleted] »

veilrap wrote: post #601
Aeolun wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I bought a $1000 device, but somehow Apple gets to decide what I run on it? I just cannot see how that is a desireable situation.

I bought a $1000 device because Apple gets to decide what can run on it. I like iOS, and I like that Apple provides a great user experience on the device. I was not in any way coerced into buying said device, and there are a plethora of other options for substitute devices had I wanted more control of what runs on the device, which I do not.

[deleted]
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