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Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

macrumors.com

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Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#481

Post by DRW_ »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #472
madeofpalk wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple was not going to explicitly block Unreal Engine from the App Store, but instead they were going to terminate a different Apple Developer Account that Epic uses for Unreal, hindering them from developing it on Apple platforms.

Ah. Epic International. If apple has blocked that other account, would it have removed all Unreal Engine powered iOS apps from the App Store, just like all Epic games are now removed from the App Store? I press this question because IMO that would be a serious tactical mistake on Apple’s part, and it’s surprising that Apple would make it (even incidentally). The judge’s injunction may have saved Apple from itself. Bu…

No. Even if Apple terminates the 'Epic International' account - nothing will happen to existing Unreal Engine games on the store by other developers.

The issue is that Epic will lose access to Apple developer tools and will struggle to maintain Unreal Engine going forward and as such that may hinder development of those games in the future.

There's no indication or reason to believe Apple would manually remove all UE based games (because it wouldn't be something they 'revoke' and all UE games stop working).

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#482

Post by system2 »

saiya-jin wrote: post #32
system2 wrote: post #2

I wish every damn micro transaction app gets removed one day. Of course no one will do it but I simply hate everything about these apps forcing parents to pay small fees for stupid pixels because their kids begs them to do it. Sorry, nothing else new to add to the topic, just venting and have absolutely no sympathy to apps tricking kids to spend money on tiny cellphone games. My niece begged her mother to buy a roblo…

I see this as a huge failure in parenting - how come kids can actually spend those money? Why in the heck would you put in your credit card on a kids phone? Heck, I never put in mine, I am perfectly fine with free apps that cover vast array of my usage. I don't game on the phone though. If my kids won't either, I can call it a small victory in parenting. If they will, either they earn the money themselves, receive gi…

The developers use every psychological tool known to human kind to make these kids beg for those. The way they are brain washed is ridiculous, you would understand if you watch these kids play and how addicted they get and only way to help their "life" which is the game at that point is buying. The kid will beg, scream, throw tantrums to get that thing they want. I've seen it, you can see it on youtube, there are thousands of videos showing how kids are brainwashed.

Again, I don't have a kid nor spend a single dollar on these apps. As a developer of other kinds of software I can see the dark patterns and psychological games in these apps and it is pure evil.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#483

Post by beached_whale »

jeremyjh wrote: post #436
pier25 wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think Epic ever intended to release the new Fortnite season on Apple platforms. Epic probably doesn't care much about Apple platforms. 80% of Fortnite players are on console. I doubt macOS accounts for more than 1-2%. https://newzoo.com/insights/articles/newzoos-battle-royale-s...

Sure but a fair few play on iOS. If Apple user revenue didn't matter to Epic why would they have even started this to begin with?

There are other App/Game stores. I think this is the first, but XBox/PS maybe in the future.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#484

Post by madeofpalk »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #472
madeofpalk wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple was not going to explicitly block Unreal Engine from the App Store, but instead they were going to terminate a different Apple Developer Account that Epic uses for Unreal, hindering them from developing it on Apple platforms.

Ah. Epic International. If apple has blocked that other account, would it have removed all Unreal Engine powered iOS apps from the App Store, just like all Epic games are now removed from the App Store? I press this question because IMO that would be a serious tactical mistake on Apple’s part, and it’s surprising that Apple would make it (even incidentally). The judge’s injunction may have saved Apple from itself. Bu…

No, all Unreal Engine apps wouldnt have been removed. But it would be harder for Epic to develop the engine, and other developers would be less inclined to use the engine knowing development would be impeded.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#485

Post by nodamage »

Gene_Parmesan wrote: post #383
outworlder wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Epic could have taken the matter directly to the courts and taken action (whatever it was) after a verdict. Heck, they could even have tried to make a case to the European Union, which seems to have a knack for pursuing this kind of thing. A ruling over there wouldn't directly impact the rest of the world, but it could get the ball rolling. Instead, they decided to make a spectacle of this whole issue to try…

Under American law there has to be an actual harm (meaning alleged harm). Speculative lawsuits where you ask the courts to rule on something ahead of times is not allowed. It's just not how this country views its court system. The courts are for resolving specific conflicts that have occurred -- with factual histories playing key roles in determining which precedents may apply. The larger topic of which this is a par…

Epic already had standing based on the $300 million in Fortnite IAP fees Apple has collected, they did not need to do anything else. The rest was for media attention.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#486

Post by bdcravens »

cepp wrote: post #457
_qulr wrote: post #387

My feeling is that this whole situation is mostly going as Tim Sweeney intended. He was itching for a fight, wanted to sue Apple. The harsher that Apple retaliates, the better Epic's court case. Apple is playing right into his hands. Did Sweeney anticipate Apple's threat to Unreal Engine? Maybe, maybe not. But the temporary restraining order did block that threat, at least for now. I don't think Epic ever intended to…

> In the short term, Epic loses money by not having Fortnite on Apple devices. Will they though? For all the players who already had the app they still have access to Epic's payment system meaning they're making 20% more on those transactions. I'm not sure that new user purchases will be > 20% they make in the short term from those existing users.

They have the app as long as they don't have to reinstall it (new or replacement phone)

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#487

Post by isoskeles »

eganist wrote: post #429
rumanator wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unfortunately, supporting a brand as team sports is a thing like supporting a political party as team sports is. My take is the exact opposite: this episode is an opportunity to air grievances regarding each company, which by themselves have amassed a bunch of reasons for customers and end users to dislike them. There are no good guys in this story, only bad guys whose evilness outstages the other's evilness.

> There are no good guys in this story, only bad guys whose evilness outstages the other's evilness. I'm not a stakeholder in Apple or Epic. I don't possess products from either. That said, I'm inclined to view epic's actions here as closer to civil disobedience, specifically in that epic is playing the long game to prove their opinion that Apple's contractual terms are anti-competitive. Because it maps so effectivel…

> (sidebar — I'm not white)

Thank you.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#488

Post by manigandham »

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #192
gameswithgo wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

people familiar with Tim Sweeny’s life and ideology know that it is an actual important issues to him that platforms be open. your cynical take is often very true but there are sometimes real human ideals behind things.

Tim Sweeney may be a wonderful man who loves open platforms, apple pie, and kittens, but: - Android is clearly more open than iOS, but Epic is also suing Google. So is this really about sideloading? From that suit, it sure doesn't sound like it. - When you do sideload Fortnite on your Android device, from what I understand, you can't actually sideload Fortnite directly. Instead you have sideload... the Epic Games Sto…

It's the correct goal to aim for here, beyond just the fees. Multiple fully functioning app stores is good for consumers on both platforms.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#489

Post by WWLink »

kbenson wrote: post #332
DoofusOfDeath wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised this kind of topic inspires such discourse. I wonder what makes it different than other topics.

It touches on multiple axes of discussion that can often be found here: - The rights of the individual/company compared to the good of the public. - The right of an individual to control that which they bought. Also, whether and what you buy compared to license the use of. - Anti-competitive behavior and monopolies (as distinct concepts, whether one applies doesn't preclude a different answer for the other). - Very l…

Plus as it's HN, there's a lot of people who want to have control over what their customers do with their products. lol. It's like those threads where some company is exposed for spying on their users, where a bunch of people argue that it's just telemetry and they wouldn't know what their customers wanted if they didn't spy on them and stuff.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#490

Post by metiscus »

bdcravens wrote: post #486
cepp wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the short term, Epic loses money by not having Fortnite on Apple devices. Will they though? For all the players who already had the app they still have access to Epic's payment system meaning they're making 20% more on those transactions. I'm not sure that new user purchases will be > 20% they make in the short term from those existing users.

They have the app as long as they don't have to reinstall it (new or replacement phone)

Perhaps that works for epic as well, giving apple customers an incentive to move to a platform that allows side loading?
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