TikTok CEO Kevin Mayer to leave the company • Hacker News Board

Re: TikTok CEO Kevin Mayer to leave the company

#171

Post by unishark » Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 9:17 AM UTC

est31 wrote: post #127

mclightning wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate this "As a European" generalizations as if Europe has an entirely homogeneous spread of governance. Take this for a second; Bulgaria and Denmark is both Europe, or Hungary and Sweden.

Europeans have one thing in common though: they aren't americans, disregarding the minority of stationed soldiers, diplomats, expats, immigrants, etc. "As an European" is a good way to state that you are indeed not an american. The general assumption on places like hn is that you are one. It's visible in the topic choices. As an example, the team viewer IPO, even though it's been a multibillion IPO, didn't get into h…

There's obviously more implied by that statement though. The poster is making a criticism that their identity is apparently meant to support.

When it comes to trending topics, as an insomniac I commonly find myself posting at times where Europeans or Asians dominate. Even then, US stories often dominate because so many non-americans are apparently just as obsessed with FAANG/Trump/NSA hotbutton stories as Americans (edit: at least when restricted in both cases to political wonks who post on the internet). One does get a lot of interesting perspectives from non-americans in such discussions. But "as a person from somewhere that doesn't suck, here's why you suck", generally isn't one of them.

Re: TikTok CEO Kevin Mayer to leave the company

#172

Post by michannne » Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 9:19 AM UTC

claudiawerner wrote: post #170

michannne wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize Barack Obama fucked his wife right? Multiple times as they have 2 children. They probably talk dirty to each other when they're alone, like almost every other couple that exists. Should I now think less of Obama on the off chance he secretly spanks his wife in bed? My point is you have to be very far removed from society to believe that no one has ever talked in a vulgar fashion, especially in a countr…

>My point is you have to be very far removed from society to believe that no one has ever talked in a vulgar fashion, especially in a country as sexualized as ours. Using vulgar phraseology is not the issue here. I'm not sure how you came away with that impression.

Yet it is, but for the sake of fast-forwarding the disagreement, let's assume for now that Drake, or any other male rapper celebrity, or any other celebrity period, or any semi-famous man has never in private conversation talked about how easy it is for them to take advantage of their celebrity status to get what they want from women.

When you assume that, then the president looks quite like the rare unique case, wouldn't you say?

Re: TikTok CEO Kevin Mayer to leave the company

#173

Post by okamiueru » Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 9:27 AM UTC

askl56 wrote: post #114

okamiueru wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are absolutely right in that it gives the wrong impression of "everyone thinks the same". That said, I don't think that is the intention, ever, when it's used. There are certain aspects in how things work in the US that are so far disconnected to how it is, in most of Europe, that is baffling. By an large, this difference applies to most of Europe. It is of course an oversimplification. But, here are a few boggli…

I strongly disagree. There is nobody in Eastern Europe (or Western Europe if they know enough about politics) who is boggled by money in politics or misleading ads. There are countries in Europe that have had Gulags in the last 50 years, I doubt they are boggled by the idea of a for-profit prison system. As a European who has lived in America and now in SEA, this "as a European" is used by people who generally don't…

I wonder if you're not going a git hard on the "strongly disagree". The main issue I think is that "as a European" tends to excludes eastern Europe in its generalization. As such, I agree that it isn't very correct. It would probably make more sense if it was "as a citizen of the more politically homogeneous Western Europe, in particular Portugal, Spain, France, Ireland, UK, Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, Denmark, Norway, Finland, Sweden, Italy, Iceland, Austria... and to some extend also but not so much for all topics and cases the other countries in Europe"... but that is a bit too terse.

I think it also tries to convey how different "a very large number of countries and millions of people" views X. It will always be a generalization.

So, if you consider "as a European" to be "Western Europe", it very often applies, overall. It is a generalization, after all. And, as far as generalizations go, I honestly think "as a European", or... maybe better "as a Western European", if you will, to be very useful way to express a very complex connection, and difference in opinion or... zeitgeist. For example, it helps illuminate the dichotomy in the reaction to private philanthropy in the US that should have never been necessary. For Americans, it is accepted that it is a heart warming act, while (for a European), it more often comes across as dystopian.

As a final note, I'm wondering if you might not want to see that argument I'm presenting. Because you point out how my case with ads and money in politics isn't that uncommon in western Europe. Let's be clear, I'm not saying it doesn't happen, or that Europe is problem free or perfect, or anything like that, but the problem and perception of it, is worlds apart. Attack ads come across as a joke that have no place in political discourse, yet, it is everywhere in the US.

But then again, maybe you are right. It is after all pretending to include the "shared voice" of people who do might very well not share that voice. It can be disingenuous. I wonder if making it more specific will still open up for smaller subsets that disagree. If you say "as a Norwegian", you are still implying agreement from others that will very much disagree.

Re: TikTok CEO Kevin Mayer to leave the company

#174

Post by fluffything » Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 9:30 AM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #90

yibg wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as the US government would like people to believe otherwise, things like laws goes out the window pretty quickly when it comes to geopolitics. This isn't a new thing in the US either. Maybe just more people are realizing it recently.

As European, that belongs to the first generation out of a dictorship, another thing that surprises me is the American belief that three letter agencies care about any law besides their own internal regulations. Even in the current democracy state, is my expectation that our own ones across the European states will do whatever it takes, with various degrees of flexibility.

I'm not sure I agree.

We have trade-deals across countries, and IMO these trade deals should account for access to markets, e.g., Chinese companies can operate in Europe freely (abiding by our laws) _if_ European companies can operate in China freely as well.

Trade-deals change all the time, and when these change, some companies might get kick off.

I think this is a functional and rational thing to do for the EU.

If you don't have any deals or specific laws about it, then pretty much everything goes. Maybe the EU could have a law that all foreign companies that abide by the EU rules can operate in Europe freely, but I strongly doubt that. Every country does pretty much whatever they want in this regard (e.g. we see it with some countries allowing Huawei to sell 5G equipment, others forbidding it, and others like Germany attempting to forbid it without mentioning Huawei). All these countries have different rules, so they all end up doing their different stuff.

China (+) is buying lots of EU companies, "forcing" them to produce and do engineering in China, with a Chinese partner, and then ripping them completely off, as part of their 2025 program.

TBH I'm very concerned about some of the companies they have bought (e.g. Rukka). I am certain this is good for China, but I don't see how this can be good for the EU in the long term. China is very open that their plan is to acquire and become leaders in the technology, and then flip a switch and cut us out.. but they are the highest bidders today...

(+) these are actually chinese companies, but sponsored and ordered by the Chinese government, with essentially unlimited funds.

Re: TikTok CEO Kevin Mayer to leave the company

#175

Post by unishark » Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 9:35 AM UTC

ageitgey wrote: post #135

koonsolo wrote: post #64

As a European I find this whole story very confusing. A president that can just force a specific company on very short notice to shut down operation, is very concerning. What is even more concerning is that a lot of people here tend to agree because of the China thing. If it is that important, why is there no law that enforces this?

Most countries have significant rules and regulations around foreign-owned corporations. Countries generally think it's important to their national security to prevent widespread foreign ownership of internal resources. But there is a trade-off where you make reciprocal deals with trusted foreign trade partners to facilitate trade and growth. Everything works smoothly when everyone plays by the same rules. China has…

> You can't even do something as simple as set up an S Corp in the US if you are foreign.

This is your idea of doing something simple? You can set up other kinds of corporation like LLC at least. Are other countries less restrictive? Seems like kind of a messy legal situation either way.

In Mexico it's really hard to buy property as a foreigner. It used to be you could not own coastal property at all, not sure if still true.

Re: TikTok CEO Kevin Mayer to leave the company

#176

Post by 72deluxe » Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 9:40 AM UTC

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #161

koonsolo wrote: post #64

As a European I find this whole story very confusing. A president that can just force a specific company on very short notice to shut down operation, is very concerning. What is even more concerning is that a lot of people here tend to agree because of the China thing. If it is that important, why is there no law that enforces this?

To me, this whole TikTok escapade highlights just how dangerous the situation has become with privacy and "tech". From everything I have read and seen, "TikTok" is a gimmick, another frivolous way to kill time, a passing trend. This is not a company that produces anything important for society. Except when we consider that what the app purports to be for its users or advertisers is not its true value/purpose. TikTok…

I have noticed this too. It is very odd. I suppose everybody walking around with 2 cameras and a microphone in their pocket with widespread high-speed Internet connectivity is too much of a chance to miss for some institutions / agencies!

Re: TikTok CEO Kevin Mayer to leave the company

#177

Post by ponker » Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 9:40 AM UTC

michannne wrote: post #129

ponker wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure sure, 5D chess, and the verbal nonsense oozing out of him on camera and on Twitter has no relevance to his 250-step master plan. Yep yep yep I’m waiting with bated breath, what I think is most important is making sure he figures out just what pizza parlor it is.

We could always go with the assumption the president is a bumbling idiot who can't tie his shoes properly. I'm sure that characterization will help understand the deeper picture here. /s You fail to see the point. I don't care either way how you wish to view the president, but your projections serve no purpose in understanding the reason why these events are taking place and what their ramifications are. As I stated…

I don’t think it’s hyperbole to say that we are at the beginning of a war and we have a Commander-in-Chief who lacks the intellect, attention span, or perhaps even work ethic required just to utter a coherent sentence.

Re: TikTok CEO Kevin Mayer to leave the company

#178

Post by 72deluxe » Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 9:42 AM UTC

UweSchmidt wrote: post #163

coliveira wrote: post #148

The only data that TikTok is stealing is the latest hiphop dance moves by teenagers! This big hoopla was manufactured to paint Chinese companies as some kind of monster. Completely absurd. I'm really surprised how a bunch of otherwise intelligent people in this forum can follow for the disinformation campaign waged by Trump to paint him as a "protector of American freedom".

The owners of these popular social apps directly control millions, billions of people by presenting them with the content they decide and taking all the data about each individual, with stunning implications. The only ridiculous thing is that this is happening unregulated.

Conversely, your entire statement could be said about Google or Facebook surely???

Thought-provoking for sure. I suppose we are all bystanders in these commercial battles and I am not sure we all win. Sorry times.

Re: TikTok CEO Kevin Mayer to leave the company

#179

Post by zorked » Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 9:43 AM UTC

jld89 wrote: post #123

What I still don't understand is why European governments haven't made tit for tat measures against China in corporate law. Why do we allow free market access to chinese companies when they don't? Are we crazy? Why not give the keys to our factories/companies while we are at it?

The World Trade Organization allows for asymmetrical relations like that for developing countries.

Same reason why we don't demand a level playing field between sheep and wolves...

China is a poor, third-world country.

Re: TikTok CEO Kevin Mayer to leave the company

#180

Post by rorykoehler » Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 9:48 AM UTC

KVFinn wrote: post #157

rorykoehler wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I support it because of "the China thing". Not because I think China is inherently bad (I am capable of separating China from the CCP) but as long as the CCP enforces heir draconian laws that don't permit foreign companies free access to the Chinese market I think this should be reciprocated. Any other response is reckless.

>I support it because of "the China thing". Not because I think China is inherently bad (I am capable of separating China from the CCP) but as long as the CCP enforces heir draconian laws that don't permit foreign companies free access to the Chinese market I think this should be reciprocated. Any other response is reckles If this is the case, why are they forcing them to sell specifically to a US company rather than…

Maybe I should have been more clear. I don't support the TikTok case specifically. This should be applied to all Chinese companies, investments etc