Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

techcrunch.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

491–500 of 639 posts

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#491

Post by sjwright »

mcphage wrote: post #124
sjwright wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Common sense ties them together. While the Fortnite app was in violation of terms, it wasn’t the app itself which violated the terms—it was the corporation.

> While the Fortnite app was in violation of terms, it wasn’t the app itself which violated the terms—it was the corporation. Definitely not. If you have multiple apps in the App Store, and one is removed for violating the terms, the rest should not be removed, since the others didn’t violate those terms.

That would make sense if apps wrote themselves and signed their own agreements with app stores.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#492

Post by mlindner »

kabes wrote: post #292
ericmay wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what you’d see is not much in the way of price decreases or increased availability of apps, but more dark patterns, malware, and anti-privacy measures. Apple basically collectively bargains for iPhone users via the App Store. Privacy features, sign-in with Apple, limiting tracking abuse, privacy “Nutrition Facts” and other items will go out the window. Apple will have those in their App Store, but users will…

I would think that people who care about their privacy, would be anti anything that reminds them of totalitarianism and therefore would also not like that Apple can decide what they can install on their devices. It's curious to see that people care about their privacy/data are fine with the control Apple has over their devices.

I think that reality is more nuanced. Totalitarianism is type of government and in such a situation you have no choice over types of government so totalitarianism has no driving factor to ever work in your favor. Additionally they have control not over just your phone but your entire being which in the hierarchy of needs is significantly higher. However in a hypothetical environment where you can pick between multiple different totalitarian states and the totalitarian states have no control over your entire being (and cannot ever become so) the totalitarian states have to compete with each other to attract people to live under them.

On the privacy/data aspect, if Apple forced data to be uploaded to the cloud, I would care. If it was "privacy" where the "privacy" is protected by apple keys I wouldn't really call that privacy. However that's not what Apple does in general where it can avoid it.

For example, in the new iOS version they're adding offline language translation functionality rather than uploading your voice snipets to the cloud to translate them. This is substantially harder engineering problem than doing it in the cloud as it requires significantly more turning to run on a constrained platform like a phone. If Apple actually didn't care about privacy they'd do what basically everyone else does.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#493

Post by heavyset_go »

aptgetrekt wrote: post #474
mlindner wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need to sign your code before being able to write your code.

I made a Mac app a few weeks ago that got to the front page here on HN[1]. It isn't notarized by Apple since I don't want to pay Apple just so I can give my work away for free that fixes something that shouldn't be an issue in their OS in the first place. When users run the app for the first time, they get a warning[2]. For that kind of popup to happen when anyone tries to use anything by Epic would almost certainly…

Thanks for sharing your experience. I also work on a free utility for macOS that I'm not paying $100 each year to release. As a result, macOS treats that app like it's radioactive.

It's a disservice to users who intentionally download the app to improve their experiences, only to find out that the program is a second-class citizen on macOS, and they need to perform a security ritual to use it. If the users don't know what the ritual is, to them, the app is just broken.

I recognize the writing on the wall, though. macOS isn't a platform to hack around on anymore, it's Apple's platform to extract rents from its developers and users. If your app or use case doesn't fit into that ecosystem, that's just too bad.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#494

Post by WWLink »

Thorentis wrote: post #482
shados wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the Court doubts that an expert would suggest a zero percent alternative It's unfortunate that the percentage cut ends up overshadowing the real antitrust issue, which is that Apple (and Google) essentially has the power to make or break any arbitrary business that relies on their platform. They base it on vague and loosely enforced rules, which means companies never know if tomorrow is the end. Having a locked pla…

Nobody is forcing Epic to use Apple's platform though. It never used to be the case, that every device you own must be able to play every game you want. You can already play Fortnite on your PC. Apple cannot stop you from owning a PC, so Apple cannot stop you from playing Fortnite. Yes, Apple is a gatekeeper for its platform. But we've known this forever. Sony is a gatekeeper for the playstation, and Microsoft is a g…

I wish there was a law saying something like "If you sell a machine that claims to do X, it does X, no exceptions."

This "We'll let you develop software for OUR X out of the goodness of our heart as long as you promise not to do Y and pay us Z" BS really gets under my skin.

lol I have a feeling everyone here will hate me for saying that though.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#495

Post by nick_kline »

Thorentis wrote: post #482
shados wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the Court doubts that an expert would suggest a zero percent alternative It's unfortunate that the percentage cut ends up overshadowing the real antitrust issue, which is that Apple (and Google) essentially has the power to make or break any arbitrary business that relies on their platform. They base it on vague and loosely enforced rules, which means companies never know if tomorrow is the end. Having a locked pla…

Nobody is forcing Epic to use Apple's platform though. It never used to be the case, that every device you own must be able to play every game you want. You can already play Fortnite on your PC. Apple cannot stop you from owning a PC, so Apple cannot stop you from playing Fortnite. Yes, Apple is a gatekeeper for its platform. But we've known this forever. Sony is a gatekeeper for the playstation, and Microsoft is a g…

The ability to buy other hardware devices to avoid one company's control is not a real solution. Besides that, all the major vendors are trying to push you to buy things in their controlled gardens/app stores. Instead of buying more devices (practical maybe for rich computer programmers) how about we just prevent vendor purchase lock-in. I should be able to run or buy or sell to end-users whatever software I want on my devices.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#496

Post by jariel »

dwaite wrote: post #458
jariel wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Snapchat, Facebook, Instagram, Whatsapp, PayPal were all pulled for 2 days at the same time, and then put back up, it would make a huge international stink, global headlines to raise awareness. Literally Joe Biden would hear about it. Same day take out an editorial or page-sized ad in the Times. Apple needs apps as much as apps need them, it just takes enough coordination.

If all those apps pulled their versions down at the same time, Facebook/Paypal/Whatapp could very well wind up in court over antitrust concerns as well.

No, Faceboook removing it's app from the appstore does not constitute an issue with anti-trust.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#497

Post by mrich »

Thorentis wrote: post #482
shados wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the Court doubts that an expert would suggest a zero percent alternative It's unfortunate that the percentage cut ends up overshadowing the real antitrust issue, which is that Apple (and Google) essentially has the power to make or break any arbitrary business that relies on their platform. They base it on vague and loosely enforced rules, which means companies never know if tomorrow is the end. Having a locked pla…

Nobody is forcing Epic to use Apple's platform though. It never used to be the case, that every device you own must be able to play every game you want. You can already play Fortnite on your PC. Apple cannot stop you from owning a PC, so Apple cannot stop you from playing Fortnite. Yes, Apple is a gatekeeper for its platform. But we've known this forever. Sony is a gatekeeper for the playstation, and Microsoft is a g…

At some point the platform has to be considered common infrastructure, similar to power transmission lines, the railroad or the Windows OS. Just because you happened to build a successful platform should not imply that you can hold everyone hostage - that is why antitrust is a thing.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#498

Post by scarface74 »

wayneftw wrote: post #487
scarface74 wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve been running PCs and Macs in my house for over 2 decades. I have not once had a problem with viruses. Are you saying that viruses, malware, ransomware, keyloggers, multiple toolbars have not been a problem in general over two decades? You remember when “reputable” sites like SourceForge were bundling adware?

> Are you saying that viruses, malware, ransomware, keyloggers, multiple toolbars have not been a problem in general over two decades? Not for me. > You remember when “reputable” sites like SourceForge were bundling adware? Sure. What's your point? I think I know: You would gladly trade the freedom of the general population for security. If so - I'm sorry to hear that. If not, maybe you should think about what you're…

> Not for me.

So would Apple be better off serving you or the general population? I think the numbers speak for themselves.

> I think I know: You would gladly trade the freedom of the general population for security. If so - I'm sorry to hear that. If not, maybe you should think about what you're saying because you're on the wrong side of the debate.

Yes because when the founding fathers came up with the phrase they were referring to the “freedom” to save a little money buying virtual currency to buy the Carlton dance in Fortnite.

You are perfectly free to buy an Android device. Most people would gladly choose some type of assurance that they could install video conferencing software and not have a secret web server installed that they don’t know to delete (ie Zoom)

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#499

Post by LoSboccacc »

shados wrote: post #475
Betelgeuse90 wrote: post #355

Some of my highlights: - "Irreparable Harm: The issue of irreparable harm focuses on the harm caused by not maintaining the status quo, as opposed to the separate and distinct element of a remedy under the likelihood of success factor. Here the court's evaluation is guided by the general notion that “self-inflicted wounds are not irreparable injury.” - "While the Court anticipates experts will opine that Apple’s 30 p…

> the Court doubts that an expert would suggest a zero percent alternative It's unfortunate that the percentage cut ends up overshadowing the real antitrust issue, which is that Apple (and Google) essentially has the power to make or break any arbitrary business that relies on their platform. They base it on vague and loosely enforced rules, which means companies never know if tomorrow is the end. Having a locked pla…

why people keep dragging Google into this, when Android has plenty solutions for distributing APK outside their play store?

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#500

Post by spott »

shados wrote: post #475
Betelgeuse90 wrote: post #355

Some of my highlights: - "Irreparable Harm: The issue of irreparable harm focuses on the harm caused by not maintaining the status quo, as opposed to the separate and distinct element of a remedy under the likelihood of success factor. Here the court's evaluation is guided by the general notion that “self-inflicted wounds are not irreparable injury.” - "While the Court anticipates experts will opine that Apple’s 30 p…

> the Court doubts that an expert would suggest a zero percent alternative It's unfortunate that the percentage cut ends up overshadowing the real antitrust issue, which is that Apple (and Google) essentially has the power to make or break any arbitrary business that relies on their platform. They base it on vague and loosely enforced rules, which means companies never know if tomorrow is the end. Having a locked pla…

I mean the Microsoft Store charges 30% for games, Google play is 30%, Steam is 30%, I'm sure there are app stores I'm not thinking of that charge 30%.

It seems to be the industry standard App Store cut.

Post reply on HN