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Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

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Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#191

Post by wayneftw »

wcarey wrote: post #169
wayneftw wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can go work somewhere else too. Having a choice is better than not having one, all around. You can argue the changing employers is hard. I can also argue that 50% of my customers use iPhones and so I have to use one and know how they work. I literally cannot have an app business without dealing with Apple. That’s why this is an anti-trust situation.

In the same way, though, that you can suggest I work somewhere else, I can suggest that you run your app business on another platform, so that doesn't seem to advance the argument very much? Plenty of folks make a living on the web or by selling Windows or Linux software. Having choice about some things is better than not having one, all around. But some people choose (!) to delegate their choosing to others in certa…

> I can suggest that you run your app business on another platform...

Did you miss the part where I said that 50% of my customers use an iPhone? To be clear: 50% of the general population in the United States uses an iPhone. 90% of the youth market uses an iPhone. That doesn't leave much of a choice for developers at all.

You simply cannot have a successful app business in the US without being on Apple's app store.

Meanwhile, there are millions of potential employers in the United States.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#192

Post by pjmlp »

toyg wrote: post #168
wcarey wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bargaining is between users and developers. Developers have increasingly taken adversarial positions with their users, who have accepted increasingly onerous terms and privacy policies because individual users are not in a good bargaining position. Apple, in contrast, is in a bargaining position to negotiate terms of use on behalf of its users with developers. For example, if I purchase a subscription to a langua…

> Developers have increasingly taken adversarial positions with their users And who do we have to thank for that turn? Apple's culture that "we know better" is a good part of that problem. Developers want to be Apple , and Apple is pretty abusive towards their users. They take the occasional pro-user stance where it suits them, but overall it's pretty clear that the only institutional interest for Apple is Apple's ow…

Plenty of developers love Apple ways, since the Mac classic.

And it is hardly any different from any other platform.

Classical PCs are the exception here due to IBM's failure to secure their golden eggs, had they succeed and PCs would have been just as like.

It is no surprise that with the rise of laptop and tablets, the classical desktop PC is an species facing extinction, with pizza boxes for server room being the only ones left.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#193

Post by wayneftw »

wcarey wrote: post #178
wayneftw wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve been running PCs and Macs in my house for over 2 decades. I have not once had a problem with viruses. Most of my problems have been with restrictions that Apple has put on me in their Mac and iOS product lines. > Apple requiring Sign In with Apple (when signin with Google/Facebook are implemented) where you can hide your email address. That’s not possible with multiple app stores. Yes it is. You, as a consumer c…

Would you support compelling developers who have a monopoly on a particular app to support all available app stores? It seems like a developer who held a monopoly in a particular app would be the in the same position Apple is in with the app store writ large? For example, if the only way to fill out my employer's timecard is via an iOS app, should they be compelled to offer the app in all the available app stores?

If that particular app was essential to modern day life for a huge portion of the general population then yes, absolutely.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#194

Post by damnyou »

wcarey wrote: post #178
wayneftw wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve been running PCs and Macs in my house for over 2 decades. I have not once had a problem with viruses. Most of my problems have been with restrictions that Apple has put on me in their Mac and iOS product lines. > Apple requiring Sign In with Apple (when signin with Google/Facebook are implemented) where you can hide your email address. That’s not possible with multiple app stores. Yes it is. You, as a consumer c…

Would you support compelling developers who have a monopoly on a particular app to support all available app stores? It seems like a developer who held a monopoly in a particular app would be the in the same position Apple is in with the app store writ large? For example, if the only way to fill out my employer's timecard is via an iOS app, should they be compelled to offer the app in all the available app stores?

If the developer was worth over a trillion dollars, or if the app was used by 20% or more of the global population, absolutely.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#195

Post by pjmlp »

cma wrote: post #179
pjmlp wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple market size is only relevant in North America and a couple of tier 1 western countries, hardly a monopoly.

Monopoly on customers with lots of expendable income, who account for most App Store revenue.

That is a personal opinion with zero legal value.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#196

Post by pjmlp »

c048 wrote: post #175
pjmlp wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

20% global market share isn't a monopoly.

How many stores are allowed on Apple's ecosystem?

Don't like Apple, buy Android, Jolla, Purism, KaiOS, whatever.

And in the process get a law book.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#197

Post by wayneftw »

pjmlp wrote: post #19

Epic is just the new gang in town establishing themselves while trying to get some shops under their control, by playing being against the long time block owners.

I support any gang that wants to give developers and users more freedom of choice.

What do you support?

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#198

Post by pjmlp »

bananaface wrote: post #167
pjmlp wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

20% global market share isn't a monopoly.

Doesn't matter, the behaviour is still monopolistic, but even if we cede that point it's absolutely a duopoly. Fortnite is also banned on Google play, they've lost access to over 90% of the mobile market. The Sherman Act isn't about being a monopoly, it's about exploiting an unfair degree of leverage. But either way that's not my point. Epic establishing a precedent that restricts the degree to which companies can do…

Your point is meaningless in face of the law, and that is what all anti-Apple champions will get with this lawsuit.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#199

Post by pjmlp »

wayneftw wrote: post #197
pjmlp wrote: post #19

Epic is just the new gang in town establishing themselves while trying to get some shops under their control, by playing being against the long time block owners.

I support any gang that wants to give developers and users more freedom of choice. What do you support?

I support that anti-Apple folks should get Android, Jolla, Purism,...

Apparently voting with the wallet means buying status and then complaining about what one has bought.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#200

Post by simion314 »

wcarey wrote: post #160
dgellow wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- I don't think it's fair to compare Apple's position to a "collective bargaining". What they are doing is defending their moat from competing offering, they are defending one of their source of control and revenue. If there would be a bargain, who would be facing them? Developers? If Apple is in position to dictate what they want with no discussions, it's not a bargain. - Even if other app stores are available (or s…

The bargaining is between users and developers. Developers have increasingly taken adversarial positions with their users, who have accepted increasingly onerous terms and privacy policies because individual users are not in a good bargaining position. Apple, in contrast, is in a bargaining position to negotiate terms of use on behalf of its users with developers. For example, if I purchase a subscription to a langua…

Is your gym app not available on Google store but only as a side load? Because you are imagining that because soem developers are shit then all are shit.

When I was young I could create small apps and games and share with my friends. But the future seems to be "think at the idiots that might side load malware" so our children will need to create developers accounts, provide IDs , buy certificates just to develop and share some games.

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