Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Nobody is forcing you to use a 3rd party app store, but Apple is forcing everyone to go through their store. Many employers do that very thing. How many people have been compelled by employment circumstances to install Zoom despite its dubious pedigree? What happens when a corporate timecard app exists only in a 3rd party app store?
Again a comparison that doesn't make sense - also employers pay you whereas when you buy an iOS device you pay for it. So not only you give Apple your money but also you give up control to them.
Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store
151–160 of 639 posts
Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store
#152Earlier quoted context omitted.
The main issue with iOS isn't really so much iOS itself but the secondary effects it has over the entire industry - after all it has been very clear that Microsoft is salivating over the prospect of being Apple v2.0 and having as much control over the PC ecosystem as Apple has over the iOS ecosystem.
Are you telling me there is no “Linux of mobile devices” out there? I’m struggling to recall but I feel like there have been many much more open devices _and_ OSs our there but it turns out consumers don’t care enough about those aspects to want that.
But yes, the options are too few and things can go like apples - one bad Apple can spoil the bunch.
Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store
#153Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes but why? Why not demand to be able to have control over your own devices?
Why? Because having Apple in control of the device is valuable to me. VERY valuable. It's the big reason why I willingly pay more for Apple phones. If I wanted control over my phone, I don't need to "demand" it. I would have simply bought a different product. Meanwhile, I already have plenty of devices that I have control over. That's like asking why not insist that your Tesla Model 3 has a diesel engine, a manual tr…
You can give Apple initial (and practically temporary if you do not want to take it back) control over the device without actually forcing everyone else to do the same.
> I would have simply bought a different product.
What if you liked everything Apple does except the part about not allowing you to install 3rd party applications?
> That's like asking why...
As i wrote in other posts, these comparisons 99.9% of the time miss important details so they're not helpful. E.g...
> ... diesel engine, a manual transmission and the ability to crawl up boulders.
...these having nothing to do with iOS allowing users to install applications from outside the App Store.
Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store
#154Earlier quoted context omitted.
How is having control over what you can install on your own PC and being in a position to actually choose from where to install it a nightmare? Is being in control and having choice a nightmare?
Well, you just look at the PC ecosystem and you can see the nightmare. Like others,I prefer Apple to have a tightly controlled App Store and believe that the benefits far outweigh the ability to install software from a 3rd party App Store. For example, Apple requiring Sign In with Apple (when signin with Google/Facebook are implemented) where you can hide your email address. That’s not possible with multiple app stor…
Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store
#155Earlier quoted context omitted.
I lose the App Store, Apple leading the way by enforcing privacy standards, and many other things. Having control isn’t always a good thing. The benefit of having control here “download another App Store” isn’t much of a benefit to me. I love the way things are. That’s why I have an iPhone.
You do not lose the App Store, you can still use it and use only that - it is up to you. That is the entire point: you are in control and if what you want is to keep using the App Store and App Store alone then you can do that. Others, in the meanwhile, should be able to install whatever application they want if they want to do that. Just because the current situation aligns with what you want to do doesn't mean that…
1. Users have perfect choice in which apps they install.
2. Developers will release their apps on all available app stores.
But many users are compelled to install apps that they would prefer not to and it's not at all obvious that developers would support two app stores instead of one given the choice. The net result of that combination is that some (many?) people would be compelled to use both app stores against their inclination.
Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store
#156Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Apple will have those in their App Store, but users will make the trade off with privacy to play Fortnite or download a new social media app. > Apple makes it so that trade off doesn’t have to happen. That's the core of the discussion here: you seem to think that's in the interest of the user to have Apple taking all those decisions for themselves. I firmly disagree, I'm a happy user of an iOS device and do release…
I wonder whether people's opinions about Apple's behavior here are isomorphic to their opinions about collective bargaining writ large? If you're the sort of person who releases iOS apps, you're far more technically inclined than the median user and perhaps more willing to engage in individual negotiation of terms of service and privacy (as you'll be plausibly good at it). The median user of an iPhone is in a hopeles…
- Even if other app stores are available (or sideloading, or other potential outcomes that would be more open than the current situation) Apple still control the platform, thus can still impose A LOT of what is possible or not on iOS. If they want to "protect" their users they can continue to do it at that level (there would then be a debate on what is or not considered "anti-competition" at this level)
- Regarding the difference of technical level, yes, I'm more technically inclined. On other systems (such as Android, Windows, and macOS) being more technically knowledgeable means that I can gain more control over my system and take my own decisions. In the world of iOS (potentially also in the future world of macOS), that's not even close to being a possibility.
Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store
#157Earlier quoted context omitted.
Again a comparison that doesn't make sense - also employers pay you whereas when you buy an iOS device you pay for it. So not only you give Apple your money but also you give up control to them.
That wasn't a comparison. If 3rd party app stores are a thing, you might be compelled to use them by yet other third parties, contrary to your claim that no one would force you to use third party app stores.
Well, in that case, if employers force you to install something then just tell them give you a work phone. Or talk to them, you are adults.
And if that doesn't work, well, tough luck. This sounds like trying to solve a malfunctioning workplace problem by making everyone else suffer - it isn't my or Apple's or anyone else's problem that your boss forces you to install shady apps.
Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store
#158Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ok, but do we agree that Epic getting what they want would result in a more open platform than what we currently have? Because the alternative to what Epic want (so the current situation) isn't a completely open platform but one where Apple is the only boss and can do almost whatever they want. Having more bosses in competition for parts of the market is an improvement toward a more open system.
Maybe, I will wait for the result. But if the topic is "dynamism", I can easily manage my expectations. It just feels like someone is shitting on your plate and tells you, that it at least already looks like chocolate pudding.
Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store
#159Earlier quoted context omitted.
You do not lose the App Store, you can still use it and use only that - it is up to you. That is the entire point: you are in control and if what you want is to keep using the App Store and App Store alone then you can do that. Others, in the meanwhile, should be able to install whatever application they want if they want to do that. Just because the current situation aligns with what you want to do doesn't mean that…
It seems like there are two assumptions underlying your argument: 1. Users have perfect choice in which apps they install. 2. Developers will release their apps on all available app stores. But many users are compelled to install apps that they would prefer not to and it's not at all obvious that developers would support two app stores instead of one given the choice. The net result of that combination is that some (…
The only wrong part is users not being in control over what they can install on their devices and from where they will install them.
Yes, it is possible that people will be forced to install applications they do not want, but this isn't something that is or even should be up to the OS vendor to try and protect against - the person being forced to do that is the one who should and if they cannot, then legal action should be seeked. The entire issue is outside the scope of the OS.
Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store
#160Earlier quoted context omitted.
I wonder whether people's opinions about Apple's behavior here are isomorphic to their opinions about collective bargaining writ large? If you're the sort of person who releases iOS apps, you're far more technically inclined than the median user and perhaps more willing to engage in individual negotiation of terms of service and privacy (as you'll be plausibly good at it). The median user of an iPhone is in a hopeles…
- I don't think it's fair to compare Apple's position to a "collective bargaining". What they are doing is defending their moat from competing offering, they are defending one of their source of control and revenue. If there would be a bargain, who would be facing them? Developers? If Apple is in position to dictate what they want with no discussions, it's not a bargain. - Even if other app stores are available (or s…
For example, if I purchase a subscription to a language learning app on an iOS device, my ability to seamlessly cancel that subscription has been collectively bargained by Apple (via the terms of service of their payment processing system). That's valuable to me, particularly given the absurd difficulty of canceling subscriptions that are not collectively bargained like gym memberships.
How would Apple impose that same term of use, that subscriptions can be cancelled on device with one click, for a sideloaded app? If they can't do that, developers would offer their app only via sideloading so as to be able to take advantage of that stream of revenue, like gyms. Now there's less competition for language learning apps in the first party app store, and I, a user of that store, suffer.
That's not to say there aren't tradeoffs for that collective bargaining; there are. As you say, we have much less control over iOS devices than we've historically had over our computing devices. Similarly, workers who collectively bargain have much less control over their terms of employment than workers who individually negotiate. But for many workers (and many users), that tradeoff is a good one. Apple is currently the only organization offering it.