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Mark Zuckerberg Stoked Washington’s Fears About TikTok

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Re: Mark Zuckerberg Stoked Washington’s Fears About TikTok

#131

Post by sudosysgen »

echelon wrote: post #112
riq_ wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "fairness" The world is more complex than that. China is not "bad" because it is not a democracy. China is "bad" because it competes with the USA. There are other countries that are not a democracy an that are allies with the USA, like Saudi Arabia. But they are "good", apparently. And also, just remember that the USA only supports the democracies that are aligned with the way of thinking. Just do a bit of research…

> The world is more complex than that. China is not "bad" because it is not a democracy. China is "bad" because it competes with the USA. China is bad because it is a horrific human rights abuser without democratic elections. You march to the beat of the CCP drum or you're removed. You're also severely disadvantaged if you aren't Han Chinese. The Uighurs are being systematically exterminated, and they're not the only…

This seems like it could have been a copy-pasted block that is answered at comments with certain keywords (not that I think it is).

That is to say, it has very little to do with the arguments of the comment it replies to, or outright ignores them. It is good to engage people you reply to instead of talking at them.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Stoked Washington’s Fears About TikTok

#132

Post by tanilama »

Aperocky wrote: post #128
tanilama wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> facebook did not attempt to run its social media business in China This is not true: https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/24/17607992/facebook-allowed... Facebook attempts to open an office in China, but gets shutdown one day later. Ofc, this is China so nobody knows the reason why. Second, Chinese internet regulation is as opaque as its other operations, compliance with law is on the surface, they are tens of special g…

> Ofc, this is China so nobody knows the reason why. I'd assume facebook know? Also your link does not seem related quote(Facebook opens a subsidiary in China, a breakthrough for the banned social media platform)

There is the follow-up you requested:

https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/25/17612162/facebook-technol...

> The sudden rejection stems from a disagreement between Chinese authorities, the source told the Times. Local officials in Zhejiang, an eastern province that houses Alibaba’s headquarters, gave Facebook the initial permission, but the Cyberspace Administration of China, Beijing’s internet regulator, had not.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Stoked Washington’s Fears About TikTok

#133

Post by sudosysgen »

lazzlazzlazz wrote: post #28
Firebrand wrote: post #22

Sort of a Frankenstein’s monster situation Zuckerberg created for himself. He took Bytedance’s money so they could plaster TikTok ads all over Facebook and Instagram back in 2018. TikTok pays its approved creators around $0.035 per 1,000 views. Maybe compete with that.

So a video with 100,000,000 views gets around $35,000? That seems low. A few searches suggest YouTube pays at least an order of magnitude more, depending on geo and engagement.

YouTube does pay an order of magnitude more per view, but the average YouTube video is two orders of magnitude longer than a TikTok video, so this compares very favourably to YouTube.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Stoked Washington’s Fears About TikTok

#134

Post by fiblye »

kanox wrote: post #57
didibus wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were American?

This is not a good standard.

Americans getting involved in their own electoral process is kind of hard to consider as electoral interference. Non-Americans living outside of America using money to sway things is quite different.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Stoked Washington’s Fears About TikTok

#135

Post by dx87 »

croes wrote: post #121
holografix wrote: post #81

Reality is that while China blocks Facebook, Google, etc and smartly props up their own clones, it’s “aghast” at the American protectionism and xenophobic behaviour. How dare the Americans block a Chinese app?! China is not a democracy. It’s not interested in fairness. China is playing the long game. Just like the wars of the past were fought with little toy armies of a few thousand knights and noblemen marching into…

So because China doesn't play fair the west doesn't play fair too? So the west becomes like China? Guess China wins because the have proven that the west isn't any better than them. We fell into their trap.

"Turn the other cheek" sounds nice in grade school and self-help blogs, but you can't just let yourself get taken advantage of in order to maintain some arbitrary moral high ground.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Stoked Washington’s Fears About TikTok

#136

Post by kube-system »

asddubs wrote: post #116
geofft wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't care if China is aghast at American protectionism and xenophobia. I'm aghast, because as an American citizen, I'm interested in fairness and I hate protectionism and xenophobia, and that's what I think America is about. If you're telling me that neither this nation nor any nation so conceived and so dedicated can long endure, and that we have to fight unfairness with unfairness, you're telling me that my loya…

if you're interested in fairness, your loyalty probably is misplaced

On the global spectrum of fairness, the US is inarguably top-tier. The US is often compared to other western nations, not because they are so different, but because they are very similar. The top 15 or so countries are all neck and neck, but there’s a big wide field behind those ones.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Stoked Washington’s Fears About TikTok

#137

Post by prh8 »

baby wrote: post #82
babl-yc wrote: post #31

Facebook is banned in China. Is it unreasonable to encourage US gvt to apply pressure for a more even playing field? I know the narrative (and majority of comments) like to hate on Zuck, so just adding another perspective for this particular situation.

I actually see this rhetoric a lot, and I'm not completely disagreeing with it, but at the same time I'm scared of the effects of playing the same game with the CCP and the ramifications of such move: it seems to always end up in a "us versus them" scenario which further divides the world. If you see a few people backing the US government's decision of attacking Chinese apps, imagine how the Chinese people are being…

Is there benefit to setting an example that Chinese citizens would never see anyways?

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Stoked Washington’s Fears About TikTok

#138

Post by double0jimb0 »

geofft wrote: post #114
holografix wrote: post #81

Reality is that while China blocks Facebook, Google, etc and smartly props up their own clones, it’s “aghast” at the American protectionism and xenophobic behaviour. How dare the Americans block a Chinese app?! China is not a democracy. It’s not interested in fairness. China is playing the long game. Just like the wars of the past were fought with little toy armies of a few thousand knights and noblemen marching into…

I don't care if China is aghast at American protectionism and xenophobia. I'm aghast, because as an American citizen, I'm interested in fairness and I hate protectionism and xenophobia, and that's what I think America is about. If you're telling me that neither this nation nor any nation so conceived and so dedicated can long endure, and that we have to fight unfairness with unfairness, you're telling me that my loya…

As an American business owner, in my experience reality has no concern for “fairness” but is constructed by leverage and power.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Stoked Washington’s Fears About TikTok

#139

Post by 3747yreur »

holografix wrote: post #81

Reality is that while China blocks Facebook, Google, etc and smartly props up their own clones, it’s “aghast” at the American protectionism and xenophobic behaviour. How dare the Americans block a Chinese app?! China is not a democracy. It’s not interested in fairness. China is playing the long game. Just like the wars of the past were fought with little toy armies of a few thousand knights and noblemen marching into…

I don't really see how most of this is actually relevant to TikTok or all the drama surrounding it. The point of western societies is that certain things like art and speech are considered worthy of bestowing protections upon. TikTok is a platform that mixes speech and art and it's immensely popular with American youth who aren't allowed to advocate for themselves politically due to age. Why is it alright to block their access to a platform with these properties simply because it's politically convenient, especially when many of these same youths also use TikTok as a medium for artistic expression?

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Stoked Washington’s Fears About TikTok

#140

Post by Fr8TRN »

I strongly disagree that Zuckerberg is the mastermind behind taking out TikTok. A lot of this discussion was explicitly Chinese propaganda a few years ago egging on past presidents to ban a few foreign companies.

In my opinion Trump is driving this particular issue not at the behest of Zuckerberg. I dont think Trump sees eye to eye with other american social media companies. I think Trump just sees sensitive data about americans in foreign hands.

This EO action lacks complexity and is a somewhat, extremely messy way to do things. Trump's response does not react with the reality of the industry and that is all of our data is being scooped by everyone and banning a single company will do nothing. Hypothetically if he wanted to promote a culture change there needs to be more pointed discussion on this issue.

Additionally if Trump really really wanted to shove some regulation down data miners/brokers throats he would ban the sale of data (like ccpa but with actual teeth), and obliterate S.J.Res.34. GDPR is a farce and is like a cop making everything illegal but selectively enforcing the law.

This discussion on HN is somewhat helpful but few comments here are including the necessary complexity of this case.

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