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Mark Zuckerberg Stoked Washington’s Fears About TikTok

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Re: Mark Zuckerberg Stoked Washington’s Fears About TikTok

#111

Post by mindslight »

holografix wrote: post #81

Reality is that while China blocks Facebook, Google, etc and smartly props up their own clones, it’s “aghast” at the American protectionism and xenophobic behaviour. How dare the Americans block a Chinese app?! China is not a democracy. It’s not interested in fairness. China is playing the long game. Just like the wars of the past were fought with little toy armies of a few thousand knights and noblemen marching into…

What China thinks about app blocking is irrelevant. The issue is about what fellow Americans, Europeans, and the rest of the western world think. Censoring apps is a massive departure from our own values, and compromising the values our society is built on just to race to the bottom with China will lead us to ruin. If black box content editorialization is a problem, let us push back market wide instead of picking on lone targets for being more overtly unaccountable.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Stoked Washington’s Fears About TikTok

#112

Post by echelon »

riq_ wrote: post #108
holografix wrote: post #81

Reality is that while China blocks Facebook, Google, etc and smartly props up their own clones, it’s “aghast” at the American protectionism and xenophobic behaviour. How dare the Americans block a Chinese app?! China is not a democracy. It’s not interested in fairness. China is playing the long game. Just like the wars of the past were fought with little toy armies of a few thousand knights and noblemen marching into…

> "fairness" The world is more complex than that. China is not "bad" because it is not a democracy. China is "bad" because it competes with the USA. There are other countries that are not a democracy an that are allies with the USA, like Saudi Arabia. But they are "good", apparently. And also, just remember that the USA only supports the democracies that are aligned with the way of thinking. Just do a bit of research…

> The world is more complex than that. China is not "bad" because it is not a democracy. China is "bad" because it competes with the USA.

China is bad because it is a horrific human rights abuser without democratic elections. You march to the beat of the CCP drum or you're removed. You're also severely disadvantaged if you aren't Han Chinese. The Uighurs are being systematically exterminated, and they're not the only ones that suffer.

The US isn't perfect. Our immigration laws and history of racism, sexism, and homophobia leave much to be desired. But we're not a dictatorship and we're a net force for good. I'd rather be a US citizen than a Chinese one.

Most of the world recognizes that China is becoming worrisomely powerful, and we've collectively decided that we need to put them back in check. Thankfully Xi is flexing all of China's muscles in an early show of strength, which has gotten the world's attention. Nobody wants totalitarian China to be the dominant superpower. Xi played his hand early, and now the walls are about to cave in.

As impressive as China's domestic capabilities look, they have an aging population with a huge gender imbalance that will bite them in a few short decades. If the world decouples manufacturing and supply chains from China over this same time period, China is going to have significant problems. They're not as self-sufficient as they look. They're an importer of energy and food, and without exports they won't be able to sustain their growth internally.

The world is trying to knee-cap China, and it makes sense.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Stoked Washington’s Fears About TikTok

#113

Post by matchbok »

throwawayobyy wrote: post #75
oxfordmale wrote: post #44

Zuckerberg is damaging Facebook reputation. I was approached by Facebook's recruitment team, but decided not to go ahead with it given the recent negative news around this company. I predict a slow decline for Facebook, like IBM, if Zuckerberg stays on as CEO.

I work at Facebook and we have a bi-yearly satisfaction survey. Trust in zuck's management is probably the highest metric, up there with agreeing with the global mission of the company (which is to connect people). I'd say he's one of the strong reason why people stay in the company even with the non-stopping bad news cycle. Don't think that what you see outside reflects what really happens inside. What I personally…

Yeah, none of that matters. What matters is the harm FB is doing to the country.

Only companies that do shitty things need to have that much "training". Think about that.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Stoked Washington’s Fears About TikTok

#114

Post by geofft »

holografix wrote: post #81

Reality is that while China blocks Facebook, Google, etc and smartly props up their own clones, it’s “aghast” at the American protectionism and xenophobic behaviour. How dare the Americans block a Chinese app?! China is not a democracy. It’s not interested in fairness. China is playing the long game. Just like the wars of the past were fought with little toy armies of a few thousand knights and noblemen marching into…

I don't care if China is aghast at American protectionism and xenophobia. I'm aghast, because as an American citizen, I'm interested in fairness and I hate protectionism and xenophobia, and that's what I think America is about.

If you're telling me that neither this nation nor any nation so conceived and so dedicated can long endure, and that we have to fight unfairness with unfairness, you're telling me that my loyalty to America itself is misplaced.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Stoked Washington’s Fears About TikTok

#115

Post by asddubs »

echelon wrote: post #112
riq_ wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "fairness" The world is more complex than that. China is not "bad" because it is not a democracy. China is "bad" because it competes with the USA. There are other countries that are not a democracy an that are allies with the USA, like Saudi Arabia. But they are "good", apparently. And also, just remember that the USA only supports the democracies that are aligned with the way of thinking. Just do a bit of research…

> The world is more complex than that. China is not "bad" because it is not a democracy. China is "bad" because it competes with the USA. China is bad because it is a horrific human rights abuser without democratic elections. You march to the beat of the CCP drum or you're removed. You're also severely disadvantaged if you aren't Han Chinese. The Uighurs are being systematically exterminated, and they're not the only…

it feels like you haven't really responded to the post you're replying to. the point they were making is that if that's what this was about, that standard would be enforced against saudi arabia as well.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Stoked Washington’s Fears About TikTok

#116

Post by asddubs »

geofft wrote: post #114
holografix wrote: post #81

Reality is that while China blocks Facebook, Google, etc and smartly props up their own clones, it’s “aghast” at the American protectionism and xenophobic behaviour. How dare the Americans block a Chinese app?! China is not a democracy. It’s not interested in fairness. China is playing the long game. Just like the wars of the past were fought with little toy armies of a few thousand knights and noblemen marching into…

I don't care if China is aghast at American protectionism and xenophobia. I'm aghast, because as an American citizen, I'm interested in fairness and I hate protectionism and xenophobia, and that's what I think America is about. If you're telling me that neither this nation nor any nation so conceived and so dedicated can long endure, and that we have to fight unfairness with unfairness, you're telling me that my loya…

if you're interested in fairness, your loyalty probably is misplaced

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Stoked Washington’s Fears About TikTok

#117

Post by thesausageking »

holografix wrote: post #81

Reality is that while China blocks Facebook, Google, etc and smartly props up their own clones, it’s “aghast” at the American protectionism and xenophobic behaviour. How dare the Americans block a Chinese app?! China is not a democracy. It’s not interested in fairness. China is playing the long game. Just like the wars of the past were fought with little toy armies of a few thousand knights and noblemen marching into…

Whatever your stance on if TikTok should be banned, it's concerning that the CEO of their largest competitor is able to dictate government policy to potentially remove them from the market. And Facebook is the only large tech player with this direct access to the Whitehouse.

The decision should be based on what's best for the US and for the market as a whole; not what's best for Facebook.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Stoked Washington’s Fears About TikTok

#118

Post by tanilama »

Aperocky wrote: post #91
holografix wrote: post #81

Reality is that while China blocks Facebook, Google, etc and smartly props up their own clones, it’s “aghast” at the American protectionism and xenophobic behaviour. How dare the Americans block a Chinese app?! China is not a democracy. It’s not interested in fairness. China is playing the long game. Just like the wars of the past were fought with little toy armies of a few thousand knights and noblemen marching into…

There's a difference, facebook did not attempt to run its social media business in China, and Google voluntarily quit so it doesn't have to comply to censorship law. Meanwhile Tiktok has a US branch and is complying with laws in the US. China has a restrictive internet where if you want to operate, you have to comply with a certain set of rules that are unsavory to say the least. Facebook, Google decided to not bothe…

> facebook did not attempt to run its social media business in China

This is not true: https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/24/17607992/facebook-allowed...

Facebook attempts to open an office in China, but gets shutdown one day later. Ofc, this is China so nobody knows the reason why.

Second, Chinese internet regulation is as opaque as its other operations, compliance with law is on the surface, they are tens of special government approved certificates to obtain if you want to actually operate there, like this one: https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E7%BD%91%E7%BB%9C%E8%A7%86%E5%..., which is approved case by case and notoriously hard to get, basically make it impossible for foreign company to operate in China.

So no, China's internet doesn't have only have a set of rules that once you comply you get a pass. It is mired in layers of regulations and bureaucracy that without guanxi, you can't crack it no matter how willing you are.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Stoked Washington’s Fears About TikTok

#119

Post by colordrops »

Aperocky wrote: post #91
holografix wrote: post #81

Reality is that while China blocks Facebook, Google, etc and smartly props up their own clones, it’s “aghast” at the American protectionism and xenophobic behaviour. How dare the Americans block a Chinese app?! China is not a democracy. It’s not interested in fairness. China is playing the long game. Just like the wars of the past were fought with little toy armies of a few thousand knights and noblemen marching into…

There's a difference, facebook did not attempt to run its social media business in China, and Google voluntarily quit so it doesn't have to comply to censorship law. Meanwhile Tiktok has a US branch and is complying with laws in the US. China has a restrictive internet where if you want to operate, you have to comply with a certain set of rules that are unsavory to say the least. Facebook, Google decided to not bothe…

You are completely mistaken if you think simply complying with local laws will allow you to succeed in the Chinese market.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Stoked Washington’s Fears About TikTok

#120

Post by croes »

AlphaSite wrote: post #95
Aperocky wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a difference, facebook did not attempt to run its social media business in China, and Google voluntarily quit so it doesn't have to comply to censorship law. Meanwhile Tiktok has a US branch and is complying with laws in the US. China has a restrictive internet where if you want to operate, you have to comply with a certain set of rules that are unsavory to say the least. Facebook, Google decided to not bothe…

Aren’t there restrictions that the companies need to be 51% owned by local interests? And issues with IP transfer, etc.

These restrictions are gone. China changed their laws.
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