Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay • Hacker News Board

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#91

Post by macinjosh » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 8:21 PM UTC

orclev wrote: post #62

Skunkleton wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...Uber drivers reported earning $13.47 per hour, which means that on average, drivers report that their car is costing them over $6 per hour to operate. If you were to drive full time, that would get you about 27k/year, which is about the average income that a taxi driver makes. Rideshare companies are asking you to take more personal financial risk than you might as a taxi driver, but giving you more flexibility.…

Our economy has become so overwhelmingly top heavy that the majority of the population is losing the ability to take part in it. The middle class used to be the mean income, but these days the mean has drifted so far from the mode that the distinction between middle class and lower class has all but vanished. Just taking a brief look at the 2014 census numbers, the mode income was centered around $22,000 a year while…

This information is only useful if it is contrasted against the number of people who want/need/are able to work. People like the retired, teenagers, stay-at-home parents, college students, etc. all may make some small amount of income each year but generally speaking don't work full time. This isn't evidence of people struggling. It is evidence of people exercising their personal rights which include not being a worker.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#92

Post by friedman23 » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 8:21 PM UTC

throwawaygh wrote: post #72

When companies like Uber/Lyft depend on safety nets like unemployment without ever paying into the system, what’s happening is that our children are paying for returns on VC capital. People profiting from these types of companies should feel bad about themselves.

Uber and lyft would still exist without unemployment so how do they depend on them?

If there was no unemployment insurance uber and lyft would still exist and saying that uber and lyft depend on these social safety nets is just dishonest rhetoric.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#93

Post by kreutz » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 8:21 PM UTC

compycom wrote: post #86

kreutz wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can find work elsewhere then?

Unless you are entrepreneur with access to capital, I'm not sure how you can expect individuals to will a good employer into being if none is to be found. Using the government to create better conditions for the working class is a completely reasonable use of the political process.

Right here: https://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/jjj

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#94

Post by vore » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 8:22 PM UTC

cltby wrote: post #89

throwawaygh wrote: post #72

When companies like Uber/Lyft depend on safety nets like unemployment without ever paying into the system, what’s happening is that our children are paying for returns on VC capital. People profiting from these types of companies should feel bad about themselves.

When people like you create social safety nets like unemployment without ever paying into the system, "what's appending" is that Uber and Lyft are paying for your moral grandstanding. People shifting the costs of their moral choices to strangers should feel bad about themselves.

How are we not paying into the social safety net? That's literally what we as individuals pay for with taxes.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#95

Post by randyrand » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 8:22 PM UTC

tetrometal wrote: post #46

yannyu wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The market is not fair. People have to eat, and will look for whatever job that can get that will help them eat and provide for their families.

I genuinely don't understand this position. I don't see how replacing a "bad" option with no option helps anyone, especially the people that were willing to take the "bad" option.

banning prostitution is the best example of this dumb line of thinking. If they could do something better they already would be doing it. Replacing a "bad" option with "no" option does not help them.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#96

Post by jeffbee » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 8:22 PM UTC

Hamuko wrote: post #67

jluxenberg wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tangent: $6/hr sounds a bit low; actual costs are probably higher. The IRS standard mileage rate (the amount you can deduct from your taxes for each mile driven) is $0.58/mi ( https://www.irs.gov/tax-professionals/standard-mileage-rates ) $6/hr operating costs means the driver is driving a max of ~10mi/hour, if costs to operate are in line with IRS guidelines.

I wouldn't be surprised if drivers are underestimating their costs. The true cost of vehicle ownership is rather murky and I doubt many of these drivers are self-taught accountants.

That's why the driver attrition rate is so high and Lyft/Uber have to constantly run driver recruitment efforts in mature service areas. After the driver ruins their original car in less than a year, they quickly realize the true operating costs.

Say what you will about the taxi business but at least taxi drivers knew that the gate fee on a leased vehicle was $100/day.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#97

Post by kreutz » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 8:22 PM UTC

ccktlmazeltov wrote: post #65

bananabreakfast wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a pretty absurd argument to make when the alternative is quite literally these jobs not existing at all as almost just happened at midnight tonight.

alternative is to provide healthcare as a human right?

Healthcare should be provided as a human right but this is not accomplishing that.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#98

Post by jayd16 » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 8:23 PM UTC

tetrometal wrote: post #46

yannyu wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The market is not fair. People have to eat, and will look for whatever job that can get that will help them eat and provide for their families.

I genuinely don't understand this position. I don't see how replacing a "bad" option with no option helps anyone, especially the people that were willing to take the "bad" option.

The missing link is that you're raising a false dichotomy. Its a sliding scale of profit margin. Instead of bad or none, the choice is more low paying options or fewer higher paying options. Some will receive higher wages, while some opportunities will not be available.

Both sides believe the net benefit backs up their stated position and there's very little compelling data one way or another.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#99

Post by serjester » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 8:23 PM UTC

Completely anecdotal but I bring this question up every time I drive in an Uber and overwhelmingly the drivers tell me they want to stay independent. No one is forcing drivers into their jobs. I really struggle to understand why we need bureaucrats imposing their idea of what a market should look like on an fairly efficient market.

From my experience the drivers are perfectly aware of the costs that go into driving so I really don't buy the exploitation argument. Seems like a loss for everyone except bureaucrats. Also don't see how it's realistic to expect them to be able to adjust to this on a dime. Although large, California is still a minority of their revenue.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#100

Post by TeaDrunk » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 8:23 PM UTC

kreutz wrote: post #68

ccktlmazeltov wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't let the market decide because the market is doomed (in the treating-people-as-human-beings sense) by the lack of infrastructure in the first place: - no healthcare means you're a slave of whatever you can find, - tipping culture means your employer can pay you shit

They can find work elsewhere then?

Didn't we already go through this line of reasoning during the industrial revolution? Didn't we already have our muckraking moments to show exactly why this line of reasoning is full of assumptions, totally devoid and dissociated from the actual reality of people's lives?