Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay • Hacker News Board

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#61

Post by skybrian » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 8:13 PM UTC

hammock wrote: post #56

Skunkleton wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...Uber drivers reported earning $13.47 per hour, which means that on average, drivers report that their car is costing them over $6 per hour to operate. If you were to drive full time, that would get you about 27k/year, which is about the average income that a taxi driver makes. Rideshare companies are asking you to take more personal financial risk than you might as a taxi driver, but giving you more flexibility.…

Who says driving for Uber/Lyft should be a full-time job, or statutorily viable as a full-time job? If you consider it only as a second or third job, then it makes a lot more sense that your second or third job is not going to pay as well or have the same benefits as your first job. Those aspects would be expected and reasonable. The low-risk, high-reward jobs fill your primary job slot, then you seek other options a…

What happens in practice is that people try to make ends meet with two or three crappy part-time jobs, because that's all they can find.

(Insert plug for UBI here.)

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#62

Post by orclev » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 8:13 PM UTC

Skunkleton wrote: post #23

blakesterz wrote: post #6

"Uber and Lyft say drivers prefer the flexibility of working as freelancers, while labor unions and elected officials contend this deprives them of traditional benefits like health insurance and workers’ compensation." I was curious about what drivers think. I guess they're not happy [1] but want to be independent contractors still [2]. 1. https://therideshareguy.com/uber-driver-survey/ 2. (In a May online survey dra…

> ...Uber drivers reported earning $13.47 per hour, which means that on average, drivers report that their car is costing them over $6 per hour to operate. If you were to drive full time, that would get you about 27k/year, which is about the average income that a taxi driver makes. Rideshare companies are asking you to take more personal financial risk than you might as a taxi driver, but giving you more flexibility.…

Our economy has become so overwhelmingly top heavy that the majority of the population is losing the ability to take part in it. The middle class used to be the mean income, but these days the mean has drifted so far from the mode that the distinction between middle class and lower class has all but vanished. Just taking a brief look at the 2014 census numbers, the mode income was centered around $22,000 a year while the mean was $75,000. Let that sink in. The largest percentage of the US population makes less than $25,000 a year.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#63

Post by ccktlmazeltov » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 8:14 PM UTC

tetrometal wrote: post #46

yannyu wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The market is not fair. People have to eat, and will look for whatever job that can get that will help them eat and provide for their families.

I genuinely don't understand this position. I don't see how replacing a "bad" option with no option helps anyone, especially the people that were willing to take the "bad" option.

the option is to provide the infrastructure for the market to figure out, but you need some baseline first, and we don't have that baseline. Decouple healthcare from having a job and you're already halfway there, like the rest of the world.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#64

Post by yoz-y » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 8:14 PM UTC

tetrometal wrote: post #46

yannyu wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The market is not fair. People have to eat, and will look for whatever job that can get that will help them eat and provide for their families.

I genuinely don't understand this position. I don't see how replacing a "bad" option with no option helps anyone, especially the people that were willing to take the "bad" option.

The goal of regulation is to stop the race of the bottom at some point.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#65

Post by ccktlmazeltov » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 8:14 PM UTC

bananabreakfast wrote: post #60

yannyu wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The market is not fair. People have to eat, and will look for whatever job that can get that will help them eat and provide for their families.

This is a pretty absurd argument to make when the alternative is quite literally these jobs not existing at all as almost just happened at midnight tonight.

alternative is to provide healthcare as a human right?

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#66

Post by macinjosh » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 8:15 PM UTC

asdasfasdfasdf wrote: post #45

Skunkleton wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...Uber drivers reported earning $13.47 per hour, which means that on average, drivers report that their car is costing them over $6 per hour to operate. If you were to drive full time, that would get you about 27k/year, which is about the average income that a taxi driver makes. Rideshare companies are asking you to take more personal financial risk than you might as a taxi driver, but giving you more flexibility.…

"personal risk" This is kind of the state of the country really. Ridesharing is an OK gig until you get into an accident, you're fine without health insurance until you get injured, you don't really need a union until you start getting treated unfairly, you can pay for college as long as you consistently have a good salary... we're being statistically gaslit with the idea that most people can scrape by without higher…

I think you're gas lighting us by ignoring the fact that this personal risk is taken at personal choice. If someone wanted the arrangement that comes with an employee/employer relationship there are jobs that offer that. But not everyone wants that, some people prefer, for their own reasons that are really none of your business to be an independent contractor. This is about choice plain and simple.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#67

Post by Hamuko » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 8:15 PM UTC

jluxenberg wrote: post #36

Skunkleton wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...Uber drivers reported earning $13.47 per hour, which means that on average, drivers report that their car is costing them over $6 per hour to operate. If you were to drive full time, that would get you about 27k/year, which is about the average income that a taxi driver makes. Rideshare companies are asking you to take more personal financial risk than you might as a taxi driver, but giving you more flexibility.…

Tangent: $6/hr sounds a bit low; actual costs are probably higher. The IRS standard mileage rate (the amount you can deduct from your taxes for each mile driven) is $0.58/mi ( https://www.irs.gov/tax-professionals/standard-mileage-rates ) $6/hr operating costs means the driver is driving a max of ~10mi/hour, if costs to operate are in line with IRS guidelines.

I wouldn't be surprised if drivers are underestimating their costs. The true cost of vehicle ownership is rather murky and I doubt many of these drivers are self-taught accountants.

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#68

Post by kreutz » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 8:15 PM UTC

ccktlmazeltov wrote: post #59

kreutz wrote: post #25

Why not let the market decide? If drivers are so unhappy why not just seek some alternative form of work? Uber/Lyft do not force anyone to hop online.

You can't let the market decide because the market is doomed (in the treating-people-as-human-beings sense) by the lack of infrastructure in the first place: - no healthcare means you're a slave of whatever you can find, - tipping culture means your employer can pay you shit

They can find work elsewhere then?

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#69

Post by supergirl » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 8:15 PM UTC

bhupy wrote: post #43

supergirl wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's not that simple. by that logic you could say eliminate minimum wage and any other legal employee benefit. companies are in a position of power so they must be regulated

Sure, status quo policy isn't gospel, and a minimum wage isn't necessarily the best solution to the problems it aims to solve.

it's the best because it was chosen by the people of a democracy (more or less). if it's not good they can change it

Re: Uber and Lyft shutdown in California averted as judge grants emergency stay

#70

Post by Ericson2314 » Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 8:15 PM UTC

I'm sad that here was a rare chance that people voted on something, and the effects of the vote would have been palpable.

We'll have scare tactics, stays, negotiations, changes to the bill, etc., all leading to a complete lack of shock and awe. People will not pay attention, and continue assume the effects of votes is nothing. And I wouldn't want to convince them otherwise.

To be clear, this comment doesn't assume people actually want Lyft to leave. Whether people are thrilled or filled with regret, it doesn't matter. I just want them to feel the power of a vote.

:(