Rolling blackouts in California have power experts stumped • Hacker News Board

Re: Rolling blackouts in California have power experts stumped

#311

Post by Mister_X » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 8:37 AM UTC

zxcvbn4038 wrote: post #199

meroes wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a technician for xfinity in the bay area and NIMBYism a huge part too I would say. Huge portions of Mill Valley especially on and around Mt Tam had such bad poles and vegetation. Only the last 3 fire years did anything. But literally nothing gets approved besides exact replacement. Nothing gets put underground, or rerouted because (as I understand it) mostly NIMBY groups. And I believe ATT ultimately owns most o…

> Nothing gets put underground That is too bad, I grew up in an desert locale that had all its power lines buried and I only experienced one power outage in fifteen years. Then I moved out to a coastal area where burying the lines wasn’t really feasible and pretty much every time it rained someone would hydroplane into a utility poll and knock out the power for a couple hours, and it rained at least once a week. If t…

For the last 30 years I've lived all along the Mendocino coast, and every time one of the towns I lived in had a vote to underground the utilities, the NIMBY's killed it because it would cause much disruption, yet when the power went out due to weather related issues, they complained about the power outages.

Re: Rolling blackouts in California have power experts stumped

#312

Post by boring_twenties » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 8:54 AM UTC

meroes wrote: post #38

nimbius wrote: post #3

as someone who apprenticed as a lineman briefly, this isnt at all unexpected. Just because you have generating capacity, does not always mean you have capacity in the duty cycle for your transmission infrastructure. Many substations are older, and were never designed to handle high duty and load during climate-change driven weather events. These substations suffer from underreporting as they often dont have remote mo…

I am a technician for xfinity in the bay area and NIMBYism a huge part too I would say. Huge portions of Mill Valley especially on and around Mt Tam had such bad poles and vegetation. Only the last 3 fire years did anything. But literally nothing gets approved besides exact replacement. Nothing gets put underground, or rerouted because (as I understand it) mostly NIMBY groups. And I believe ATT ultimately owns most o…

You're telling me that there are people who have above-ground wires to their home, who oppose efforts to put these wires underground?

That's incomprehensible to me... and then these same people complain about outages? Wow.

Re: Rolling blackouts in California have power experts stumped

#313

Post by Nasrudith » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 9:48 AM UTC

meroes wrote: post #38

nimbius wrote: post #3

as someone who apprenticed as a lineman briefly, this isnt at all unexpected. Just because you have generating capacity, does not always mean you have capacity in the duty cycle for your transmission infrastructure. Many substations are older, and were never designed to handle high duty and load during climate-change driven weather events. These substations suffer from underreporting as they often dont have remote mo…

I am a technician for xfinity in the bay area and NIMBYism a huge part too I would say. Huge portions of Mill Valley especially on and around Mt Tam had such bad poles and vegetation. Only the last 3 fire years did anything. But literally nothing gets approved besides exact replacement. Nothing gets put underground, or rerouted because (as I understand it) mostly NIMBY groups. And I believe ATT ultimately owns most o…

That underground lines are objected to is hillarious by east coast standards where NIMBYs frown upon power lines heavily. Especially the EMF whackjobs since the earth between it would insulate it but those types are so wilfully ignorant they would think it causes earthquakes or "poisons the earth" somehow.

Re: Rolling blackouts in California have power experts stumped

#314

Post by httpsterio » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 10:23 AM UTC

jychang wrote: post #304

bgorman wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Enough is being invested, it is just being spent extremely poorly. No country gets less per dollar on education than the US. A good start would be supporting school choice so the public school's monopoly and cost structure can be challenged.

Literally every other country in the world has a fully public education that does just fine. I think the only well known non-US private school system (off the top of my head) are UK commonwealth secondary boarding schools, and those schools are more well known for their abuse than their academic strength. Pretty much any other country (for example, France, Japan, China, etc) are generally built on a system of publicl…

Finland as well, we don't basically have private or boarding schools at all.

Re: Rolling blackouts in California have power experts stumped

#315

Post by glogla » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 10:34 AM UTC

bassman9000 wrote: post #262

aaomidi wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Percentage isn't the issue. Diablo Canyon Nuclear Power Plant provides the base power usage, which isn't the issue that's causing the blackouts. Looking at raw percentage numbers for blackouts is wrong because this is an issue of not having enough capacity during peak, which nuclear doesn't solve.

which nuclear doesn't solve Please expand. How does France handle peaks, having almost 3/4 of their electricity coming from nuclear?

According to [1] they also have 24 GW installed capacity of hydro and 12 GW of gas so my guess would be that?

[1]: https://www.electricitymap.org/zone/FR

Re: Rolling blackouts in California have power experts stumped

#316

Post by chiefalchemist » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 10:46 AM UTC

smabie wrote: post #257

chiefalchemist wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the poles are the issue. They're a proxy. The issue is: what happens when you upgrade such infrastructure? The area become more desirable, there's more development, and more "outsiders" move in.

Yeah but presumably that would increase land prices.

Obviously, not everyone values money over peace and quite, and peace of mind. Not everyone loves strip malls and other "mod cons."

Re: Rolling blackouts in California have power experts stumped

#317

Post by krageon » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 12:02 PM UTC

davisr wrote: post #287

forgotmysn wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. it was strong enough for you to post 2. please try to explain the security issues that 5G presents that aren't present in 4G, 3G, etc. 3. a lack of information is not an excuse to promote doubt and misinformation. part of the reason we haven't been able to measure the long-term effects of cellular radiation is that it takes time to run those studies. please stop promoting lies and undermining trust in the systems…

Hi, in response to #2, 5G allows for very fine resolution in location tracking. There are also concerns about the manufacturers of that equipment. I'll direct you to this link for more: https://www.brookings.edu/research/why-5g-requires-new-appro... In response to #3, I have not posted any lies, and anything that disagrees with your narrative is not automatically FUD. There are serious doubts of 5G on many fronts by…

> why do we need

Why not? When we moved from 3G to 4G I felt like it was kind of useless, but now that I have it I definitely enjoy all the things that become possible with it (lower latency everything, mostly). It was the same way moving from ISDN to cable. It's never bad to have better stuff - you'll find a use for it even if you don't have one now.

> can you explain some concerns you might have about 5G

Frankly the only real and reasonable concern to have is that there are very few engineers that roll out 5G networks that aren't Chinese. I'm not opposed to China, but I am opposed to a country's entire infrastructure being built and maintained by another country (that may want to use that to exert political pressure some day).

> there is a tendency by the group to form an echo chamber

In this case I really don't think it's that, it's mostly that you posted information that's just wrong and then you retreated to a (frankly lazy) defense as to why you're spreading misinformation. It makes you come off as the kind of person that's really unpleasant to talk to, because the lies tend to be so sticky and pervasive. It's exhausting to have to revisit every component of what you know just because someone else couldn't be bothered to figure it out for themselves.

Re: Rolling blackouts in California have power experts stumped

#318

Post by zaarn » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 12:10 PM UTC

henearkr wrote: post #292

LeoPanthera wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if Moskowitz has a point, it is difficult to take him seriously when he associates himself with "Physicians for Safe Technology", a group which maintains the belief that Electromagnetic hypersensitivity is a real thing. It is not. It has no scientific basis and is not a recognized medical condition. https://www.who.int/peh-emf/publications/facts/fs296/en/ High levels of RF exposure can of course do damage, in th…

All is not just about energy absorbed or burns. There are reports of the space between cells becoming larger (less inter-cellular adhesion) because of RF, and this led to the conclusion that the blood-brain barrier was weakened due to some kinds of RF. I've not dig too much in the subject, but I understand that a leaky BBB would increase inflammation in the brain and penetration of many molecules (including carcinoge…

A lot of the active RF spectra that people are concerned about don't penetrate deep into your body. They're either absorbed by the skin, the fatty tissue underneath or at the least, by the bone in the skull and ribcage. The reason your phone keeps working when your body blocks the signal is that the signal bounces of other surfaces.

Blocking signals with your body becomes more true as frequency (and bandwidth) goes up. 5G Wifi can't even properly penetrate dry wall, not even mentioning all that water and bone in your body.

Beside that, below the infrared spectrum, it is unlikely that much damage is done by common RF signals; the energy in a quanta from that spectrum is too small to effectively do anything but heat molecules up a tiny bit.

Photochemical effects, ie, things like chemical reactions being induced or cells reacting to the light, require atleast about 1Thz to work (low-end IR).

The heating occurs primarly for frequencies between 30 and 120MHz, which is actively used but not by B2C commercial things, it largely involves ham radio, air traffic radio, sea traffic, weather satellites, etc. Things you're likely to be closer to the receiving end of than the high powered sender.

Which also bring to the other issue; the energies in common RF close to you is too low. If you send with 100mW power, the power your body will capture, even if it's the phone right next to your ear, is likely below 10mW of power. Low enough that your native body heat already overpowers it easily.

Re: Rolling blackouts in California have power experts stumped

#319

Post by zaarn » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 12:15 PM UTC

beders wrote: post #293

davisr wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, they're not entirely wrong about the 5G. I understand many in this forum won't agree with me. From https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/we-have-no... > We Have No Reason to Believe 5G Is Safe > The World Health Organization's International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) classified RFR as "possibly carcinogenic to humans" in 2011. Last year, a $30 million study conducted by the U.S. National T…

Coulomb barrier - how to overcome it with radiation like that? Exactly, not at the energy levels a cell phone user is subjected to. Why isn't that the end of the story?

It's like with homeopathy; it's effect cannot be measured beyond base background noise, but plenty of people believe it affects their bodies anyway.

Re: Rolling blackouts in California have power experts stumped

#320

Post by zaarn » Tue, Aug 18, 2020, 12:18 PM UTC

PeterStuer wrote: post #291

WWLink wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man, I can't imagine anyone NIMBYing new power poles lol. Old poles get scary, especially when they start leaning over. And then when AT&T was mounting giant ass DSL VRADs on poles too lol. I'd be out there cheering on the linemen for replacing the old junk. :D

Depends. New poles proposed often carry not just electricity, but also a cellular station, 2 or 3 cameras, 'smart' blazing bright led street lights going on and off at irregular times and 1 or 2 sizable led advertizing displays constatly adapting their messages to perceived passers by. I can definetly see how replacing a lowly old pole with one of these annoyance towers can lead to strong opposition even for those no…

Burying the cable like every other country on this planet with decent infrastructure does, will not create "a cellular station,2 or 3 cameras, led street light and advertising displays". How would these even work underground?