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I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

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Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#291

Post by simiones »

kbenson wrote: post #62
munificent wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the lesson to be learned here is that if your business depends exclusively on another company for its survival then it’s not your business. This point is made frequently, and it's generally true. But, at the same time, every business is built on top of some kind of opportunity and there is no guarantee in life that opportunities are perpetual. The mine runs out of ore. People stop buying records. The fish stop biti…

Generally, the solution presented is to get a contract ensuring your access. That's usually because people are building on some open API for free which then changes or stops working altogether. The App Store isn't a contract, but it is (or should be ) quite a bit better than building your app on top of some open API that you have no assurances on, as the rules are published. The problem is that there's no real intros…

I think the larger point of the post above is that building an app for an in-vogue platform should be seen as a business opportunity. It is important to know it won't last forever, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't build apps for one of the most lucrative marketplaces of the moment.

You do need to realize that this can change fairly quickly, so you should either use this as a springboard to something else, or just accept that it's a temporary business and not something that will stick around.

The concept still applies even if the problem isn't about being kicked out (which a contract could maybe solve), but simply about the market fading for one reason or another. One common thing that can happen is that the platform provider may decide to compete with you, which is often very hard to come back from - they usually have access to the platform in ways you can't replicate.

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#292

Post by jacobush »

seanalltogether wrote: post #172
jrochkind1 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most alarming part of this is actually the clear evidence that they use arbitrary and inconsistent enforcement of vague rules to actually enforce OTHER secret rules. In this case "no app recommendation engines", or more broadly "nothing that drives downloads". They didn't just say that. They pretended it was some other rule. Which means what people suspected is true -- they lie to you about the reason for your ap…

I think Apple knows that their inconsistency helps suppress criticism of their developer program. Look at any HN thread about apps being removed from the store over the years and its usually filled with users saying how the developer should have followed the rules and they have only themselves to blame for being removed. Apple can promote rules that "protect" users and then apply them in any way they want.

Like mobsters!

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#293

Post by causality0 »

ransom1538 wrote: post #194
mhafez17 wrote: post #29

Wow. I am the author of this email. I have no idea how it resurfaced after 5 years, I was only made aware of this when a friend emailed me the HN link. The sad thing is it was not just my company which was targeted, but Apple removed this entire product category. We never knew the real reason why, or if it was bigger than just a random app reviewer trying to apply Apple policy, until May 2019. That's when Bloomberg i…

1) I worked at a game company 2011: kicked out of facebook (quizzes restrictions were added to the toss) 2) I worked at a mobile ads company 2013: kicked out of apple store 3) I worked at a mobile hosting company for small shops 2015: salons, restaurants, etc: kicked out of apple store 4) I worked at a mobile social network company (2017): kicked out of apple store. 5) I built an app where people can promote their gi…

In my opinion yet another symptom of our chronic lack of public options when it comes to the internet. I would have no issue with the App Store applying whatever arbitrary and capricious actions it wants if there were another option for Apple users. It's like if Walmart sold self-driving cars that wouldn't drive you to any other store and everybody was just ok with that because you could always buy a self-driving car from Target, except you have to modify the Target car's settings to let you drive manually to get to any other store than Target.

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#294

Post by 8note »

zepto wrote: post #234
fomine3 wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So Safari is top attack surface, why don't they ban Safari?

Because people know the difference between websites and apps.

Are there actually differences between websites and apps?

It's just some code you got off the internet and run on your phone

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#295

Post by seviu »

fatnoah wrote: post #98
jrochkind1 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most alarming part of this is actually the clear evidence that they use arbitrary and inconsistent enforcement of vague rules to actually enforce OTHER secret rules. In this case "no app recommendation engines", or more broadly "nothing that drives downloads". They didn't just say that. They pretended it was some other rule. Which means what people suspected is true -- they lie to you about the reason for your ap…

>they use arbitrary and inconsistent enforcement I've experienced this directly a few times. In one case, we had an app in the store for several years and a random update that fixed a crash was blocked for violating the rule around allowing out of app purchases. It took a couple weeks to appeal and get it approved. In that process, we changed nothing functional and resubmitted with a couple bits twiddled to make the…

> a random update that fixed a crash was blocked for violating the rule around allowing out of app purchases. >... and the other was abandoned after several months of back-and-forth.

This.

Once you get on their bad side with an App there is no end to it. The App Store review team will keep on rejecting every single update you do for totally unrelated random reasons.

One of my apps got approved when first submitted. Everything after that was just absurd to the point we had to abandon it. The App Store review team kept on rejecting any update we would make. The last one which was supposed to be a bugfix release got through three reviews. Each one got rejected due to different reasons. Each one addressed the problem the review team asked us to 'fix'. It was clear they did not want us in the store. We had to stop it. Half a year of work vanishing just like that.

It would have been so much easier if they had told us that they did not want us in the App Store. Such a waste of time.

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#296

Post by 8note »

Ansil849 wrote: post #7

> In November last year the App Review team made it clear that our apps were not welcome in the Store anymore as they actively removed our main app from the Store. They pointed to the rule (2.26) created just a couple of years ago about what kind of apps can recommend apps other than its own (by the way I still believe my apps fit the description). We of course have been aware of this rule since it came out, as we al…

Based on what people have said in these threads, said app couldn't recommend apps like that because the Apple review system makes sure that there's no such apps to recommend.

That's only a danger if the app review program doesn't work

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#297

Post by fxtentacle »

Hamuko wrote: post #53
TheSoftwareGuy wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like apple didn't want any competition for in-store ads

I still don't understand those. I paid god damn 1200 euro for this phone. Why am I seeing ads for shitty apps?

Because as someone paying 1200 euro for a piece of hardware that you don't control, you deserve to be treated like someone not in control.

At least they are not actively blackmailing you (yet).

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#298

Post by ponker »

zepto wrote: post #275
ponker wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re giving the same answers that Apple Marketing would.

Do you think it isn’t true? You seem to be just deflecting.

I do not think it's true that Apple's decision to ban Microsoft's xCloud is to protect their customers from games that are actually trying to defraud players. If this is deflecting then I guess call me the Great Deflector.

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#299

Post by virattara »

mhafez17 wrote: post #29

Wow. I am the author of this email. I have no idea how it resurfaced after 5 years, I was only made aware of this when a friend emailed me the HN link. The sad thing is it was not just my company which was targeted, but Apple removed this entire product category. We never knew the real reason why, or if it was bigger than just a random app reviewer trying to apply Apple policy, until May 2019. That's when Bloomberg i…

What happened after Tim Cook wrote "Thoughts"?

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#300

Post by exikyut »

mhafez17 wrote: post #71
surround wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I ask what your app was/did?

Our company was AppAdvice - we did iOS app recommendation. We were most popular for our detailed curated lists, and looping gameplay videos here: https://appadvice.com/game/collections Basically the idea was we helped you figure out which apps / games you would love and then link you directly to the official App Store to download it

Wow, this almost makes me want to get an iPhone.

Awkward but genuine question: is there anything out there like this for Android? :)

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