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I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

judiciary.house.gov

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Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#41

Post by Ansil849 »

dessant wrote: post #24
phone8675309 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But do you also believe that other people should not have the right to install software that has not been blessed by an authority on their devices? If they did thirty seconds of research in the market they would see that there is a large ecosystem of devices that allow unsigned apps to be installed by the owner that they could have chosen.

This argument keeps being repeated, and it's basically just "if you don't like it, find a different platform". Do you think that's how our rights should be preserved, by hopping to places and platforms that respect our rights? Where do we leave those who have to live with their devices, or simply lacked the knowledge to make that important distinction at the time, or things have changed and now they need to install a…

> simply lacked the knowledge to make that important distinction at the time

What about the users who lacked the important knowledge that the apps they downloaded had deceptive advertising, or malware?

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#42

Post by csa »

surround wrote: post #38
mhafez17 wrote: post #29

Wow. I am the author of this email. I have no idea how it resurfaced after 5 years, I was only made aware of this when a friend emailed me the HN link. The sad thing is it was not just my company which was targeted, but Apple removed this entire product category. We never knew the real reason why, or if it was bigger than just a random app reviewer trying to apply Apple policy, until May 2019. That's when Bloomberg i…

Can I ask what your app was/did?

> Apple executives ordered the elimination of apps that drove downloads to the App Store. He said "Your app drove download volume. Apple doesn’t want any outside sources to drive ratings. So yeah, we got rid of all app recommendation apps." He said he thought it was unfair, but this was something.

Seems like an app recommendation app.

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#43

Post by guessbest »

mhafez17 wrote: post #29

Wow. I am the author of this email. I have no idea how it resurfaced after 5 years, I was only made aware of this when a friend emailed me the HN link. The sad thing is it was not just my company which was targeted, but Apple removed this entire product category. We never knew the real reason why, or if it was bigger than just a random app reviewer trying to apply Apple policy, until May 2019. That's when Bloomberg i…

Congratulations, you are now part of an antitrust suit.

https://judiciary.house.gov/uploadedfiles/015127.pdf

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#44

Post by Spivak »

dessant wrote: post #14
Ansil849 wrote: post #7

> In November last year the App Review team made it clear that our apps were not welcome in the Store anymore as they actively removed our main app from the Store. They pointed to the rule (2.26) created just a couple of years ago about what kind of apps can recommend apps other than its own (by the way I still believe my apps fit the description). We of course have been aware of this rule since it came out, as we al…

You seem to not be interested in living with your right to install any app you want on your device, which is fine. But do you also believe that other people should not have the right to install software that has not been blessed by an authority on their devices? Do you think that general purpose computing devices, which an iPhone is, should no longer have the capability to run software without third-party auditing an…

I think you have the motivations of iOS users a little backwards. I use an iPhone specifically because I want and benefit from Apple strong-arming developers.

Software is in a lot of cases non-fungible and so I gain exactly zero choice and freedom when a piece of software I need decides in the name of "freedom" to switch payment systems and app stores. I at least chose to buy an iPhone and want to use the App Store, the same can't be said for a would-be game that's exclusively on the Epic store.

My only real choice as a user on most platforms is just not using an app, but Apple actually has some weight to throw around in my interest. It's technically not "choice" or "freedom" in the way you want but broadly they make the decisions I would have made and actually have the power to make it happen.

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#45

Post by vmception »

> I fear App Review is getting too powerful. It's no longer about keeping iDevices safe or protecting the user's best

Its amazing that people right here on hackernews, 5 years later, actually think it is about keeping iDevices safe when they see these legislature and regulatory movements against Apple

I’m glad to see your email now

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#47

Post by valuearb »

dessant wrote: post #24
phone8675309 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But do you also believe that other people should not have the right to install software that has not been blessed by an authority on their devices? If they did thirty seconds of research in the market they would see that there is a large ecosystem of devices that allow unsigned apps to be installed by the owner that they could have chosen.

This argument keeps being repeated, and it's basically just "if you don't like it, find a different platform". Do you think that's how our rights should be preserved, by hopping to places and platforms that respect our rights? Where do we leave those who have to live with their devices, or simply lacked the knowledge to make that important distinction at the time, or things have changed and now they need to install a…

Why would you buy a device where much of the value it provides is derived from its walled garden, then complain about the walls around the garden?

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#48

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

dessant wrote: post #14
Ansil849 wrote: post #7

> In November last year the App Review team made it clear that our apps were not welcome in the Store anymore as they actively removed our main app from the Store. They pointed to the rule (2.26) created just a couple of years ago about what kind of apps can recommend apps other than its own (by the way I still believe my apps fit the description). We of course have been aware of this rule since it came out, as we al…

You seem to not be interested in living with your right to install any app you want on your device, which is fine. But do you also believe that other people should not have the right to install software that has not been blessed by an authority on their devices? Do you think that general purpose computing devices, which an iPhone is, should no longer have the capability to run software without third-party auditing an…

> Do you think that general purpose computing devices, which an iPhone is, should no longer have the capability to run software without third-party auditing and approval?

There are barely any devices these days which cannot meet the definition of "general purpose computing device" without drawing some arbitrary line somewhere. Certainly every modern game console qualifies. Are Roku boxes general purpose if it weren't for their locked down nature?

I mean, I'm all for legislation saying you can't lock down products like this, I just don't think that's what the people advocating for this want in most cases. They just want special rules for iPhones in particular.

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#49

Post by munificent »

headmelted wrote: post #19

I mean, there’s a point to be made about how much monopoly power Apple holds, and it’s now clear these questions weren’t asked until now because lawmakers were really sweet on the maker of their shiny iPhone - but this letter ain’t it. The author is grovelling to the point of it being honestly pitiful. The amount of derogatory references to the web and Android also make it really hard for me not to question the motiv…

> the lesson to be learned here is that if your business depends exclusively on another company for its survival then it’s not your business.

This point is made frequently, and it's generally true. But, at the same time, every business is built on top of some kind of opportunity and there is no guarantee in life that opportunities are perpetual.

The mine runs out of ore. People stop buying records. The fish stop biting. The tax code changes. A foreign competitor appears with access to better resources. An invention instantly makes yours out of date. People stop eating out.

I don't think the answer is to avoid all possible opportunities that may not last forever. Instead, you just have to factor that into your business plan. That can mean diversifying, pivoting, or simply acknowledging that that particular business has run its course.

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