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Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

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Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#631

Post by OldHand2018 »

selimthegrim wrote: post #405
lr4444lr wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They've already had that option for many years. Mass outsourcing of U.S. high skill IT just never materialized. I suspect there's a much greater managerial gulf between Bangalore and New York than between Dubuque Iowa and New York.

Did you pick Dubuque because of the IBM shop there?

There's an IBM shop there?

Anyway, if any HN folks are planning road trips across America, you wouldn't regret passing through that part of the country. Dubuque is in the Driftless Area, a tiny sliver of North America that wasn't covered by glaciers during the last ice age and therefore wasn't scoured flat when they receded. There are lots of steep hills and deep ravines, exposed rock and springs that pop out of the ground for a while and then go back underground. Dubuque sits on a fairly picturesque part of the Mississippi River and has many hills and valleys in town. It even has a funicular!

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#632

Post by dragonwriter »

dongvsascript wrote: post #600
stbtrax wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what you're comparing it to, SF is known to have a world-class food scene. There are multiple examples all of the things you listed(except maybe british but who wants that?), as well as things that you don't find in may other cities: burmese, cambodian, laotian, peruvian.

heh. food scene. i don't want a 'food scene.' i just want good food. i don't care if it's on 3 plates with sauce designs, i don't care if it looks like a beef-flower, or if it photographs well for my 'stream.' btw the british school of cuisine is one of the most famous in the world. not scene-wise though, but good food is for eating, not instagram. sf is definitely not known for tasty food. it's known for showing off…

> sf is definitely not known for tasty food.

Yes, it is.

It's mostly orthogonal to the trendy food scene, and if you follow the latter hoping to find the former you’ll likely be disappointed, but SF is known for excellent examples of both a wide variety of authentic ethnic cuisines and a wide variety of excellent unique creative/fusion offerings apart from the trendy scene.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#633

Post by dragonwriter »

mrgordon wrote: post #517
dongvsascript wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i have an honest question here. i haven't lived in sf -just visited. i have however been to most states and about 40 countries for comparison. food - most of what i saw was not good food. hipsterish overpriced food made by chefs trying to show off by putting a twist on dishes -not to be good, just to be different or weird. tiny portions, not tasting above average, on a huge plate. all presentation, not actual taste.…

If you think San Francisco has poor quality food, you clearly haven’t spent much time there (as you admit) or you don’t have very discerning taste. California grows the majority of the country’s produce and most everyone else is getting the same ingredients a few days later. Farm to table is the standard instead of something that starts at $25/plate like in most US cities The city could be more dense in some areas bu…

> If you think San Francisco has poor quality food, you clearly haven’t spent much time there (as you admit) or you don’t have very discerning taste.

Or just are following shallow, presentation-focussed hipster-targetting marketing and being surprised that it leads you to presentation-focussed hipster-targetted food offerings.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#634

Post by osdiab »

selectodude wrote: post #509
presentation wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uhh, maybe US cities haven’t, but here in Tokyo I never smell feces, step on needles, nor are there hordes of homeless people in every major part of the neighborhood, in a city that has affordable housing, a truly phenomenal public transit network, streets that pretty much never have potholes, and endless cultural and culinary amenities, in a place with GDP per capita far lower than SF. And it similarly was the case…

Not all of us have the opportunity to just up and leave the US, unfortunately.

I hope US cities wake up, become humble, and actually try to fix the deep hole of social issues they’ve dug themselves into. Best I can say is be active and vocal in your local government, since that’s where these messed up policies come from and you have a lot more power to impact your city than you do the federal government.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#635

Post by 2arrs2ells »

nogabebop23 wrote: post #601
radicaldreamer wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only in the short to medium term... the characteristics which make SF an attractive place to live (just like NYC) are resilient and sticky. If you consider a post-covid world 5 years from now, do you think that SF with it's museums, bars, restaurants, and proximity to nature will be an unattractive place to live? Do you think that remote-first/remote-only companies where the majority of employees are outside of the b…

>> This is a blip. It could be a major blip So if it's a 10 or 20 year "major" blip does that make it longer than "temporary"? Locals tend to go to museums once or never, lots of places have good bars and restaurants and the idea of SF having a proximity to real nature is a joke. I guess time will tell if you, I or someone else is ultimately correct, but the pull of SF was the jobs above all else; if that's gone then…

Do you live in the Bay Area? Your take doesn’t match my experience at all...

* Most of my friends are members of one museum (or have season tickets to SHN/SFJazz/etc)

* Most of my friends go hiking in Marin or Big Basin or whenever at least once a month, and spend a weekend somewhere like Big Sur or Yosemite a couple times a year. Bay Area nature is unparalleled.

SF may be in a tough place for a while, but don’t underestimate why it’s special.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#636

Post by OldHand2018 »

ojbyrne wrote: post #528
TheBobinator wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump has a travel ban on India through the end of the year and he just ordered Wechat be sold, and He's also sending foreign students back home. You also have, what is very obviously, a puppet ideology infecting people's minds in western countries and the tolerance for that radicalization in many is heading towards zero. As one example, Idaho still has militia units running around keeping the peace. I think the "goo…

You don’t have to “rescind your foreign citizenship” to become a US citizen.

Unless something has changed in the past few years, you kind-of-sort-of-maybe need to do that. The US doesn't actually enforce anything like it, but all of my naturalized coworkers were required to surrender their previous passport when they took the oath of US citizenship. The US gives the passport back to the home country. Canada mails it back to you and says you are still Canadian too, while China does not and says you have to get a visa like any other tourist if you ever want to step foot in China again.

Has this changed?

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#637

Post by qw33nz »

justchilly wrote: post #174
captaincole wrote: post #102

I am living in SF now and this confirms a very clear pattern that I have seen emerging, particularly of tech workers. I would say that >50% of the people I know who were living in the city have left, or are in the process of leaving. Some examples (there are countless): 1) All three of the roommates that I had are choosing to leave either permanently or temporarily. 2) A friend who works for google who is going on a…

I've seen the same. The misconception is that people are leaving because the housing is too expensive and its not worth it anymore. Almost everybody I know that moved out had no problem affording housing (high earners / home owners / rent controlled). People are leaving because quality of life has fallen dramatically and the only thing keeping people in SF was their offices. About half of the tech people I know have…

The trash and homeless problems suck. They should do something about it. Oh and cut taxes too.

Everyone wants to make more and pay less to clean up their mess.

“I’m voting cognitive dissonance for 2020!”

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#638

Post by aussieguy1234 »

I disagree with the notion that the "rent seekers" add value to the economy. All I can see is their parasitic influence on not only cost of living but also wider social issues like homelessness, which the rest of the economy then has to put up with and pay for

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#639

Post by zepto »

adjkant wrote: post #248
zepto wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s also worth noting that this has happened before in SF multiple times, to varying degrees, and the result has generally been an invigoration of culture in one way or another.

Can you elaborate on that? I can't say I'm an SF history expert, but I've never heard of those shifts so I'm truly curious what you're referring to.

See the other answer - captures what I was referring to.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#640

Post by lambdatronics »

ghaff wrote: post #52
ravenstine wrote: post #47

Putting any valid criticism of this article aside, anecdotally, I know a bunch of people who have either left or are in the process of leaving California in the last few months. One of them just left SF. In other news, one of my cousins is seriously working towards moving out of NY. 3 of my team members have moved to smaller parts of the country. Simply speaking, my gut tells me this isn't just about San Francisco. T…

And, as many other articles have noted, there is a danger of death spirals as in the past. Transit systems are having serious problems. City services in general are going to have very serious budget issues. And so forth. If you now have to buy a car to live in the city will you still stay?

>If you now have to buy a car to live in the city will you still stay?

Interesting take. It seems like a domino too far, but it could conceivably contribute to a collapse that was already going to happen.

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