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Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

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Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#431

Post by jurassic »

rtlfe wrote: post #418
justchilly wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen the same. The misconception is that people are leaving because the housing is too expensive and its not worth it anymore. Almost everybody I know that moved out had no problem affording housing (high earners / home owners / rent controlled). People are leaving because quality of life has fallen dramatically and the only thing keeping people in SF was their offices. About half of the tech people I know have…

> People are leaving because quality of life has fallen dramatically and the only thing keeping people in SF was their offices. What are these quality of life issues, and how have other cities avoided them?

Here's a short list to get you started:

- Homeless issues. Mentally ill people pissing and defecating on the sidewalks in every significant public space.

- Vehicle vandalism is extremely common and unchecked by police.

- Extremely high income taxes with no perceivable difference in government-provided services.

- Property tax law that advantages long-term owners over young people trying to buy at today's inflated prices.

COVID added some new ones:

- Extremely high pre-COVID rents meant many adults were living in roommate situations that seem a lot less acceptable when your health is tied to the willingness of everyone in your unit to behave responsibly.

- Bars and restaurants that made the city attractive for many are now closed

- Public transit in crisis and may no longer meet your needs

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#432

Post by sandworm101 »

CoolGuySteve wrote: post #427
rtlfe wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People are leaving because quality of life has fallen dramatically and the only thing keeping people in SF was their offices. What are these quality of life issues, and how have other cities avoided them?

They haven’t, NYC is also boring now. With unemployment rising and poor benefits, civil unrest, and shitty containment policies; I’m thinking about riding the rest of this out back in Canada so we don’t get robbed/assaulted.

>> riding the rest of this out back in Canada so we don’t get robbed/assaulted.

Better come home quick. Canada is getting more than a little afraid of how badly the US is handling the covid thing. Politeness only goes so far.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53742684

"While the border closure has had significant economic and personal repercussions for the millions of people that live along it or have loved ones on the other side, the vast majority of Canadians want it to stay shut."

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#433

Post by Tiktaalik »

che_shirecat wrote: post #331
Tiktaalik wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lmao at the idea of caring about $20k when you make $250k

what if I'm trying to save 75% of my income? $20k is very significant when I'm working with 62.5k a year.

Don’t really see what the purpose of the money is. You could be spending 75% on hookers and blow and it doesn’t change things.

The point is that your basic needs are well being exceeded at even like 80k, at which point you’re already in the top 5-10%. It’s obnoxious and greedy to be concerned about such low amounts of money when you’re making $250k, in the top 1% and have so many more opportunities than other people.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#434

Post by reaperducer »

justchilly wrote: post #174
captaincole wrote: post #102

I am living in SF now and this confirms a very clear pattern that I have seen emerging, particularly of tech workers. I would say that >50% of the people I know who were living in the city have left, or are in the process of leaving. Some examples (there are countless): 1) All three of the roommates that I had are choosing to leave either permanently or temporarily. 2) A friend who works for google who is going on a…

I've seen the same. The misconception is that people are leaving because the housing is too expensive and its not worth it anymore. Almost everybody I know that moved out had no problem affording housing (high earners / home owners / rent controlled). People are leaving because quality of life has fallen dramatically and the only thing keeping people in SF was their offices. About half of the tech people I know have…

The misconception is that people are leaving because the housing is too expensive and its not worth it anymore... People are leaving because quality of life has fallen dramatically

Aren't these two sides of the same coin?

Very few people base their housing choices on cost alone. Other livability factors play a huge role. That's why real estate developers put amenities in their apartment buildings, and fight over location: Because people are willing to pay more in rent if the livability is higher than a cheaper alternative.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#435

Post by jameslevy »

klipt wrote: post #398
phkahler wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's only one way for interest rates to go from here, and home prices vary inversely with those rates. For middle class folks still working, I'd say save your money and wait for the next housing collapse. Sure, interest rates may be higher but you'll have cash. Or I could be wrong...

Some economists think negative interest rates can work. I for one look forward to having a mortgage where the bank pays me every month.

And cash that disappears from your bank account? Great for going long in the stock market.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#436

Post by Tiktaalik »

Green_man wrote: post #271
Tiktaalik wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lmao at the idea of caring about $20k when you make $250k

8% of income is significant for almost everyone. It could be easy for someone living on a lot less to assume that a marginal 20k doesn't matter to "rich people", but lifestyle inflation and regional cost of living differences should be considered.

Lol lifestyle inflation. I’m sorry why should we be crying over people when they come up short after buying a new yacht and country club membership?

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#437

Post by reaperducer »

rtlfe wrote: post #418
justchilly wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen the same. The misconception is that people are leaving because the housing is too expensive and its not worth it anymore. Almost everybody I know that moved out had no problem affording housing (high earners / home owners / rent controlled). People are leaving because quality of life has fallen dramatically and the only thing keeping people in SF was their offices. About half of the tech people I know have…

> People are leaving because quality of life has fallen dramatically and the only thing keeping people in SF was their offices. What are these quality of life issues, and how have other cities avoided them?

What are these quality of life issues, and how have other cities avoided them?

They haven't. But other cities have handled some quality of life issues differently, or better, or in some cases worse.

It's all cyclical. New York was a great place to be in the 60's, largely due to quality of life. New York in the 70's was a hellhole, largely due to quality of life. These things ebb and flow in every city. It's just SFO's turn to be on the fuzzy end of the lollipop. It'll come back.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#438

Post by nemo44x »

neltnerb wrote: post #219
momokoko wrote: post #142

I think you have to realize this is San Francisco specifically. Not the entire Bay Area. A lot of people worked in places south of San Francisco and then commuted south because SF is basically the only city nearby that isn’t awful. But now that everything is closed down, all the good parts of SF are generally gone. Who wants to live in a cramped apartment with too many roommates and no yard? The trade was always that…

I suppose it's also extremely reasonable to not want to live in close quarters with too many roommates you don't actually know all that well who may or may not be adhering to the same level of safety as you want to. But if that was it, why isn't NYC seeing the same? Are apartments actually bigger there or more commonly single occupant or something?

NYC is a ghost town compared to a year ago. There’s about 5% availability in Manhattan right now compared to about 1%-1.5% usually.

Real estate markets around the city (NJ, CN) are on fire right now. People that were maybe thinking about getting more space now have the choice made for them.

When you calculate the tax money you save it opens a world of possibilities. And it’s not like NJ or CN are low tax places! Lots of people moving to Texas and Florida as well I’ve read.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#439

Post by 01100011 »

bamboozled wrote: post #40

Have others noticed this kind of "revolt against cities" attitude lately too? I do wonder if people consider the huge advantages city living can provide? I'm reading constantly that current dream is buying a plot of land in the middle no where, signing up for StarLink and growing watermelons while trying to work a full time engineering job. The thing is though, this is all just a temporary thing, even if this pandemi…

Why would I want to live in a city and compete with the best of the best? I don't want my kids to go to a top school in an urban environment. I want them to do well in an above-average suburban school and have access to recreational activities outside the city. I want to live an affordable life that allows me to save and build wealth. I want a good work/life balance. I don't see the city providing me any of that. The city is for a special type of person. For people like me, it's just constant stress.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#440

Post by TaylorAlexander »

captaincole wrote: post #102

I am living in SF now and this confirms a very clear pattern that I have seen emerging, particularly of tech workers. I would say that >50% of the people I know who were living in the city have left, or are in the process of leaving. Some examples (there are countless): 1) All three of the roommates that I had are choosing to leave either permanently or temporarily. 2) A friend who works for google who is going on a…

My friend lives in a nice apartment in Berkely and she decided to move to a different apartment in the building (to get a balcony and no neighbors above). The rent will be 25% cheaper than her current rent for essentially the same unit.
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