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Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

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Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#381

Post by vmception »

p1mrx wrote: post #367
baron816 wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternate experience: I just moved into SF a week ago from elsewhere in the Bay. I was able to get a large, modern, luxury 1BR in a decent location for under $3K + almost a 1 month concession and no deposit. Being a single, young(ish) guy, it still makes sense to be in a city. I have more space than I need now, and I can afford the rent. Maybe things aren’t that nice right now, but I’m hoping they’ll get back to semi…

But you're just renting... won't the price skyrocket when things go back to normal?

who cares? live your dream for 1 or 2 years and move on, or cross your fingers that new opportunities present itself in the denser environment that let you keep up with the rent. If you don't make new friends that you want to be roommates with for lower individual rent, then you end up moving on anyway.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#382

Post by adjkant »

jpochtar wrote: post #305
adjkant wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's going to be a wash, or prices wouldn't fall. You're right that this will decrease tax bases, so I guess the real question is "by how much?". Only time will tell what that looks like, but I think that will lead more to rebudgeting/allocating than just objective negative losses. Your specific examples are interesting though, as NYC's population explicitly rejected Amazon's HQ2 with public backlash. N…

NYC's population did not reject HQ2— a very small, vocal group killed it, angering quite a few of the rest of us. Even then, the controversy was over 1) tax breaks to Amazon being an unnecessary handout (turns out they weren't), and 2) which neighborhood to be in.

I've yet to encounter someone in my NYC circle who isn't glad HQ2 was killed. Activists may be a small portion, but that doesn't represent the entirety of local support. None of the people I know were directly involved in said activism.

By this poll [1], 36% opposed it. While it may not be a majority, over a third of people is notable. I'm not looking to rehash this in gruesome detail, but I think your qualm is with much more nuance than "a very small, vocal group killed it".

[1] https://files.constantcontact.com/9c83fb30501/c25e9a3a-d06b-...

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#383

Post by eastbayjake »

htormey wrote: post #317
captaincole wrote: post #102

I am living in SF now and this confirms a very clear pattern that I have seen emerging, particularly of tech workers. I would say that >50% of the people I know who were living in the city have left, or are in the process of leaving. Some examples (there are countless): 1) All three of the roommates that I had are choosing to leave either permanently or temporarily. 2) A friend who works for google who is going on a…

I manage a team of 10 people in San Francisco and confirm a similar pattern. 8 of them have moved out of their SF apartments either to move somewhere else more spacious or in with their parents outside of the Bay Area. Other people I know at my company have renegotiated rents. Most but not all are open to the idea of moving back depending on how things play out over the next 6-12 months. I think their is still a big…

> I would expect somewhat of a swing back away from remote work when we get a vaccine.

I think a lot of people will move back to where offices are located, but I'm wondering if we'll see an increase in people who fly in for a few days every few weeks for meetings then jet back home to a cheaper part of the country. Relationships are hugely important -- and deep relationships are almost always only built in-person -- but we're overselling how much facetime you get in a full week vs. a very impactful 2-3 day trip with time for lunch/drinks etc.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#384

Post by megaframe »

captaincole wrote: post #102

I am living in SF now and this confirms a very clear pattern that I have seen emerging, particularly of tech workers. I would say that >50% of the people I know who were living in the city have left, or are in the process of leaving. Some examples (there are countless): 1) All three of the roommates that I had are choosing to leave either permanently or temporarily. 2) A friend who works for google who is going on a…

Similar observation, on my tiny stretch of street I've seen 7 moving trucks since SIP started, far more than I've ever seen. I get it, If you just moved or been here 1-2yr I'd leave too, the costs would make no sense.

I'm right on the fence. I've been at my current place ~6 years, prices have just started to get to about what I'm paying (rent controlled). I'm hoping it drops some more so I can negotiate a reduction.

...with permanent WFH I too want to leave, head to Europe (I'm a citizen). With travel restrictions in place, and my employer saying they'd adjust my pay to reflect local cost of living I'm not sure what would be best.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#385

Post by SmellTheGlove »

john_moscow wrote: post #289
captaincole wrote: post #102

I am living in SF now and this confirms a very clear pattern that I have seen emerging, particularly of tech workers. I would say that >50% of the people I know who were living in the city have left, or are in the process of leaving. Some examples (there are countless): 1) All three of the roommates that I had are choosing to leave either permanently or temporarily. 2) A friend who works for google who is going on a…

Interestingly this seems to only cover people who don't have kids. Do you think people with kids are stuck in SF, or have they moved out much earlier?

I have a school-aged child. I have an offer from another startup in a different city and am likely to take it. We love our school here - it's one of the better ones in the SFUSD system - but with everything being remote, as well as the district kneecapping just about anything our parents and support orgs want to fund to help kids, its becoming a wash in terms of quality.

Plus, with everything starting remotely, the fact that school starts tomorrow doesn't really matter. Even for a school with a strong sense of community, in which us as parents are deeply involved, it still feels fairly impersonal. My own child is pretty indifferent as to where they go to school at this point.

That said, sticking it out isn't the wrong call either. This is a great city, it's just that with everything related to COVID, its becoming less worth it.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#386

Post by josephg »

boringg wrote: post #356
fiblye wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was able to get a large, modern, luxury 1BR in a decent location for under $3K This sounds like a joke about just how absurd SF rents are.

That's a good deal.

Only because of how insane housing in SF is.

For comparison I own a 2br apartment in Melbourne, Australia. It takes about 15 minutes to walk from here to the heart of the city. My mortgage repayments (including interest) are about $700usd/month.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#387

Post by vmception »

momokoko wrote: post #142

I think you have to realize this is San Francisco specifically. Not the entire Bay Area. A lot of people worked in places south of San Francisco and then commuted south because SF is basically the only city nearby that isn’t awful. But now that everything is closed down, all the good parts of SF are generally gone. Who wants to live in a cramped apartment with too many roommates and no yard? The trade was always that…

> A lot of people worked in places south of San Francisco and then commuted south because SF is basically the only city nearby that isn’t awful.

I agree, but I have found it so interesting that so many people on the peninsula or south bay are completely fearful of San Francisco! Its the opposite view of what you wrote.

More of a classic "everything is scary except my suburb" misconception. I've seen it in other places before but I found it so surprising from so many people in San Mateo, Redwood City etc

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#388

Post by r29vzg2 »

bananaface wrote: post #122
khuey wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Staying within North America largely eliminates the timezone problem.

I don't fully buy this argument. New York offices rarely outsource to Equador.

This isn't true, we outsource work to Colombian developers frequently.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#390

Post by pyrrhotech »

rsynnott wrote: post #287
pyrrhotech wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Public protest is not a sign of ‘Bolshievism’. You get that basically everywhere.

Of course not, and I've attended public protests. But a public protest of the core tenets of capitalism--not just its excesses--is as close to Bolshevism as you can get. Bolsheviks started as a fringe group like Antifa, but look where they ended up. Reasonable moderates need to stand up for a form of regulated capitalism, one that protects workers and the environment, and reasonable tax policies that redistribute some of the elites' wealth to form social safety nets, but we also need to be wary of and even fight against any potential rise of radical, wealth-destroying and authoritarian socialism.
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