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Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall
351–360 of 1001 posts
Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall
#352Earlier quoted context omitted.
What has changed is near universal availability of high speed wireless. Followed by a national experiment in remote working. You don't have to live in the city to have a lucrative tech job.
How long does the “high paying” part stay true when companies who need technical talent can now pull candidates from the entire world? I wonder if the move towards remote work might wind up pushing down IT wages across the board. edit: instead of downvoting, maybe help me understand why I might be looking at this wrong?
Not wrong, but only half right.
A very significant element of comp is about relationships, not skills or productivity or labor markets or other fictions people believe.
In-person relationships are infinitely stronger, on balance, than remote.
Remote talent will be cheaper than in-person talent, on balance, AND, in-person talent will always be comped better than remote.
The way work is structured as tech continues to change will also reflect relationships, and low-relationship roles will continue to see their comp reduced.
So, yes, the range of roles that can be comped less and are remote will grow, creating a much lower median. But in person relationship leverage will only get stronger.
Hope that helps.
Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall
#353Earlier quoted context omitted.
Alternate experience: I just moved into SF a week ago from elsewhere in the Bay. I was able to get a large, modern, luxury 1BR in a decent location for under $3K + almost a 1 month concession and no deposit. Being a single, young(ish) guy, it still makes sense to be in a city. I have more space than I need now, and I can afford the rent. Maybe things aren’t that nice right now, but I’m hoping they’ll get back to semi…
> I was able to get a large, modern, luxury 1BR in a decent location for under $3K This sounds like a joke about just how absurd SF rents are.
Assuming the 1BR is 700+ sqft and the location is something like SOMA or Hayes Valley this would be a good deal.
Yes SF rents are generally insane.
Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall
#354Earlier quoted context omitted.
8% of income is significant for almost everyone. It could be easy for someone living on a lot less to assume that a marginal 20k doesn't matter to "rich people", but lifestyle inflation and regional cost of living differences should be considered.
I'm in Europe and we generally pay between 33% to 50% of our income in tax. So, yeah, i can't really imagine being angry that you're being asked to contribute back to the society. Especially when you make 250k.
The marginal rate in California for high earners is well over 50%. That 8% you're referring to is just the state income tax portion applied to the entire income.
Marginal rate for high earners includes: 37% federal. 13.3% state, plus FICA, social security, local taxes, etc. not to mention employer payroll tax and insurance premiums that are essentially passed on to employees but baked into tax in Europe).
Taxes are significantly higher in California than Europe for high earners (like the people leaving SF). There seems to be a major misconception about this even among Americans. Take France for example. Uses a simliar marginal rate system but caps out at 48%. https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/france/individual/taxes-on-pers...
Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall
#355Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you're a renter and you when lease renewal time comes up and you see twice as many open units in your apartment, wouldn't you also bargain more aggressively with your landlord? Conversely, if you're a building manager and you an X% occupancy rate target, you're going to need to cut prices in order to maintain that rate if a bunch of tenants don't renew. This is pretty much textbook microeconomics 101. Going a bit…
In practice I've never known how many other units were occupied, and the land lords are incredibly incentivized to sit on empty units over reducing the value of the property by lowering rent ever. The numbers thus _only_ go one direction.
Rents dropped significantly at the start of the pandemic in my area (from $3400 around this time last year to $2500). It's partly because I'm right next to a big college.
Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall
#356Earlier quoted context omitted.
Alternate experience: I just moved into SF a week ago from elsewhere in the Bay. I was able to get a large, modern, luxury 1BR in a decent location for under $3K + almost a 1 month concession and no deposit. Being a single, young(ish) guy, it still makes sense to be in a city. I have more space than I need now, and I can afford the rent. Maybe things aren’t that nice right now, but I’m hoping they’ll get back to semi…
> I was able to get a large, modern, luxury 1BR in a decent location for under $3K This sounds like a joke about just how absurd SF rents are.
That's a good deal.
Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall
#357Been a professional IT worker since 1999. Most of my sysadmin roles have always been on site with occasional remote work. Over the years, I've been able to swing working for a few weeks at a time while traveling abroad. Currently based in Los Angeles and my organization is allowing us to work remote. Looking to just move abroad to Ukraine and lower my costs of living while immersing myself into a new culture and esca…
Born and raised in California and I've been in the tech industry since 2007. I have been living abroad for almost 6 years and couldn't recommend it enough.
It requires some flexibility but it's been an amazing adventure.
Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall
#358Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I was able to get a large, modern, luxury 1BR in a decent location for under $3K This sounds like a joke about just how absurd SF rents are.
Assuming the 1BR is 700+ sqft and the location is something like SOMA or Hayes Valley this would be a good deal. Yes SF rents are generally insane.
820sf and right between those two neighborhoods.
Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall
#359I am living in SF now and this confirms a very clear pattern that I have seen emerging, particularly of tech workers. I would say that >50% of the people I know who were living in the city have left, or are in the process of leaving. Some examples (there are countless): 1) All three of the roommates that I had are choosing to leave either permanently or temporarily. 2) A friend who works for google who is going on a…
Interestingly this seems to only cover people who don't have kids. Do you think people with kids are stuck in SF, or have they moved out much earlier?
Good question. The two considerations I would say here are
1) Rent vs own - everyone i know in the own category is staying for now, and actually exhibiting the opposite tendencies and digging in for the long haul
2) School is now officially going full remote. This was a unknown for many families and now we will see what they choose to do.
Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall
#360Earlier quoted context omitted.
FWIW, it seems similar in the Seattle area. Lots of people moving out of the big cities. I assume it's a combination of being able to work from home and people no longer being able to afford their incredibly expensive in-city homes due to furloughs and layoffs.
Except home prices are rocketing up rather than down ATM. If people are moving out, you’d think more of them would be selling their houses.
More people buying homes moving out of apartments and condos. People are now constrained to their building and want more space. Strange covid dynamic.