Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

wsj.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

271–280 of 1001 posts

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#271

Post by Green_man »

Tiktaalik wrote: post #241
justchilly wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you make $250k in SF (sounds high, but about average for the people I know that are leaving SF), state income tax alone is $19,996. If you make that in Texas, state income tax is $0. That $20k/year is for many people a bigger deal than the cost of living. Most people I know leaving were home owners or rent controlled. Source: moved to Austin in June.

lmao at the idea of caring about $20k when you make $250k

8% of income is significant for almost everyone. It could be easy for someone living on a lot less to assume that a marginal 20k doesn't matter to "rich people", but lifestyle inflation and regional cost of living differences should be considered.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#272

Post by biztos »

effingwewt wrote: post #106

So I decided to take a road trip, just me and my dogs recently. Went from California to Southern Texas, up to New Mexico, over to Arizona, Nevada, back to California, up to Oregon, Washington, hit the upper border, came back down to southern California. What I saw astounded me. It was like the scene from Grapes of Wrath, crossed with the Beverley Hillbillies, crossed with Tokyo Drift. I saw people leaving in droves b…

I too am appalled by the rapidly growing poverty, which has accelerated in the pandemic of course but was already incredibly visible to me when returning to California every six months while the economy was supposedly going great.

If many of these people are leaving California, where are they going, and why? Did any of them tell you?

It seems to me that if you're down and out you are probably better off actually staying in California, but not in a big city, because we have a pretty big tradition of tolerance and state aid. Are they hoping for better in Nevada or Arizona?

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#273

Post by peacefulhat »

natechols wrote: post #234
crooked-v wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One bit of broader context to keep in mind is that "extreme" left-wingers in the US are merely 'the left' by, say, European standards, where the US as a whole is seen as a right-leaning country.

We have actual Maoists in the bay area - they're a tiny faction and utterly irrelevant, but they're very good at getting attention and they like to poison the atmosphere for everyone. There are no Maoist governing parties in Europe that I'm aware of, and hardly any Marxists either.

Communist parties in America are nothing but there are communist parties with seats in national legislatures throughout Europe. They’re not specifically Maoist because that doesn’t make any sense for developed countries.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#274

Post by rcpt »

adjkant wrote: post #192

These HN comments don't seem to grasp that there are two distinct groups of people here, and these trends can/will counteract eachother: the ones that are in the city for work, and the ones that are in the city because they love cities. COVID creates an exodus of one, but people in the latter category are also moving into cities as well as prices drop and they are no longer priced out. HN folks love to complain about…

> as someone in NYC

NYC is a legit megacity - New York has been described as the cultural, financial, and media capital of the world.

SF is small by comparison. Only a small portion of SF is walkable and even then the blocks are long. Transit is sparse and dirty and most people end up owning cars. Despite this housing is more expensive than NYC.

Unless you think it's reasonable to pay $4k a month for a one bedroom in Indianapolis it doesn't make sense to stay in SF.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#275

Post by adjkant »

Nursie wrote: post #263
mrgordon wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I’m not sure why people don’t get that walking past the climbing gym, a hundred varied restaurants, and a wide assortment of local shops on the way home is different than driving 20 minutes to go eat or go to the gym. My complaint about all these articles is prices have barely changed in NY and SF but they all like to proclaim some huge shift. Every time I check to see if there really are major discounts and I’m…

I think people get it, but they also get that in lockdown these benefits disappear. There was an interesting article in the guardian newspaper early in the UK lockdown that looked at the implicit social contract in city life - I may live in a small apartment, perhaps even sharing it with several others, but that is less important when the city is outside my door, it's just somewhere to sleep. If the city effectively…

> If the city effectively ceases to be outside your door for weeks or months

I think the key here is that even in the pandemic, while things have adapted and taken a different form, this isn't true. We lost some things, but solutions have popped up. Due to outdoor dining, in many ways the streets in my area have become more pedestrian friendly. Many blocks are actually now shut down to cars and are designated explicitly for pedestrians.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#276

Post by deepakhj »

fermienrico wrote: post #170

San Francisco (and the general bay area) is one of the shittiest places in the US I have ever lived. Not because there is trash everywhere, the infrastructure is crumbling, the goverment is dysfunctional, the housing mafia won't let high rises rise and provide public transportation for higher density - all these things are true, but mainly because it stays shitty in this feedback loop - more talent leads to more comp…

Maybe the problem is you and not the Bay Area.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#278

Post by biztos »

sftoss31337 wrote: post #207
justchilly wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those Felicias are the majority of the tax base, and fund all of the initiatives that rebuild communities. Falling housing prices -> falling property taxes -> less funding for schools. Even the new revenue tax passed last year to fund homeless programs is based employees being in SF, when they leave, no more funding. Not to mention all the money the Felicias pump into the local economy by ubering to brunch to buy the…

Shrug. Rationalize their existance all you want, but we will get by just fine. Do you know why San Francisco has always been expensive? Because it’s so worth it. We will do just fine without the parasitic green-eyed monsters who have invaded our homes since Web 2.0.

Actually SF was really inexpensive when I moved there in 1993.

Apart from that I enjoyed your rant. :-)

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#279

Post by adjkant »

andreilys wrote: post #268
adjkant wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See this thread + some other replies, but it seems I'm far from alone on this one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24180321

So delivery food and an outdoor rock climbing gym. None of these are exclusive to living in NYC/SF. You can learn to cook (or hell even hire your own private chef with the money you save) while living near an actual mountain with much better rock climbing capabilities and ample access to rock climbing coaches.

I've said this there, but your solutions are highlighting that its a question of values. None of your suggestions actually sate what I value in those things. I'm not looking for a personal chef or climbing coach, I'm looking for the culture that surrounds both of these things. I want to work through climbing problems with other people. I want the people that created the food to be supported by the food I eat. I'm not someone who wants to live in nature, I actually do prefer a city with access to groomed nature. No, that's not everyone, and that's okay! But it's many people who enjoy and stay in major cities.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#280

Post by novok »

DanBC wrote: post #147
blisterpeanuts wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, giving the homeless homes doesn't work. For the economically disadvantaged, of course providing free or low cost housing is helpful and welcome. But for the majority, who have mental illness and/or substance abuse issues, a shelter or home often makes little difference. Witness for example the experiment in Manhattan to provide some homeless men with hotel rooms. They literally go downstairs to poop in…

> Unfortunately, giving the homeless homes doesn't work. For the economically disadvantaged, of course providing free or low cost housing is helpful and welcome. > But for the majority, who have mental illness and/or substance abuse issues, a shelter or home often makes little difference. I'd question your stats about mental illness and substance misuse disorder, but even if we accept that most homeless people are ei…

%90 of homeless are not the chronic homeless, it's the ~%10 chronic that really need mental health care that are ruining it for everyone.

The numbers are also very low, around 10k 'chronics' for the entire bay area as far as I remember.

You need different solutions for different types. The poor / down on their luck types are definitely helped by free housing.

Post reply on HN