Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Amazon Liable for Defective Third-Party Products Rules CA Appellate Court

californiaglobe.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

261–270 of 386 posts

Re: Amazon Liable for Defective Third-Party Products Rules CA Appellate Court

#261

Post by yomly »

nkrisc wrote: post #240
yomly wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure - but that doesn't answer my question: was the product - 3P - Sold by Amazon - Fulfilled by Amazon As a customer with agency, I have the ability to not buy things on the Amazon site that aren't sold by amazon. When FBA stock contaminates sold by amazon stock, I lose that agency. That is a problem for my own personal uses of the Amazon site. That some large portion of Amazon functions like a more industrial Ebay…

Amazon does not make it easy to know, not as a consumer do I even know what the difference is between those three options. I'm a pretty savvy shopper and world wide web surfer but from looking at a product page I have no idea which one of those it is not what the implications even are. What on earth is "3P" and how does a consumer know? What is the difference between "sold by Amazon" and "fulfilled by Amazon"? Isn't…

Fair enough.

So there is Amazon the retailer. That is what Amazon originally did - buy inventory from vendors then sell them. As Amazon gained scale they launched 3P aka 3rd party selling. This is essentially Ebay at scale. Returns for these products are more or less managed by the seller.

FBA then came where 3rd party sellers can take advantage of Amazon's delivery and warehouse logistics. The stock is held by Amazon and can tap into Prime delivery. IIRC returns are also handled by Amazon so you get no questions asked returns.

I will usually filter products by Prime and will then usually look for the "sold by Amazon" text on a product page (as opposed to "Fulfilled By Amazon")

In the same way I think twice about buying random things on eBay, I also think twice about buying 3P (and FBA to a degree) on Amazon.

Filtering out 3P on Amazon is fairly straightforward. Filtering FBA is more manual and takes reading of the page.

If fake inventory is being comingled that becomes impossible.

Amazon the retailer is (from my experience) reasonably priced, delivers goods in a day (sometimes less) and offers me a return policy that is hard to compete with anywhere else.

I would never buy cables or batteries from a 3P seller. I would think twice with a FBA seller.

Re: Amazon Liable for Defective Third-Party Products Rules CA Appellate Court

#262

Post by wiredone »

smsm42 wrote: post #44

Amazon has been trying to play a parallel game for a while - from one side, they are a brand name store, with their own brands (Amazon Basics), they own loyalty club (Prime), and so on - they even own physical stores and a grocery chain now. On the other hand, they pretend to be a neutral marketplace that has no responsibility for any goods that are sold there and just renting out the space to independent sellers. It…

I’ve not experienced the neural marketplace element myself. They still have the A-to-Z guarantee and still have the best return and customer support policies in the game. I spend 10s off thousands of dollars a year and return anything I don’t like. Never had an issue with feeling like they had my back.

Re: Amazon Liable for Defective Third-Party Products Rules CA Appellate Court

#263

Post by beardbound »

throwanem wrote: post #166
HlessClaudesman wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and therefore the retailer is incentivised not to sell junk in the first place. The problem with being an "everything store" is that everything also includes an overwhelming majority of crap, looking at you crappy "genuine sony" camera batteries that held about 10 minutes of charge, fulfilled by amazon.

Yeah, no, you got lucky with that - I found out Amazon can't be trusted with high-ticket items by getting a $1200 lens that turned out to be gray market. Works fine, but I better hope I never need warranty service. Amazon can't be trusted with high-ticket items, including but not limited to camera equipment. Go to B&H or Adorama, or Newegg or Micro Center for high-ticket computer parts (cf. the recent spate of GPU sc…

I completely agree. For all of my big ticket items (e.g. bluetooth headphones, computer parts, phones, recording equipment) I go through places I trust. I end up doing a lot of shopping at Best Buy of all places again. For computer parts I mostly do Newegg and I do Sweetwater or Guitar Center for music stuff. I do still use Amazon for some stuff, but it tends to be connectors/converters and a couple of companies that have dedicated Amazon stores like Anker. I wouldn't trust something large like a TV to Amazon anymore, or something where counterfeiting is an issue like name brand clothes.

Most of the more boutique places I shop at use Shopify anyways so it's still pretty convenient.

Re: Amazon Liable for Defective Third-Party Products Rules CA Appellate Court

#264

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

egypturnash wrote: post #244
dangus wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s something off about this comment, and simultaneously I’m aware that my response is reading way too far into it . The last phrase you use continues to perpetuate the odd perception that Californians are weird extreme hippie aliens that Middle America should avoid at all costs. And then, your comment simultaneously envies California’s strong worker and consumer protections. It’s almost as if Californians aren’t…

And, on the converse, maybe a certain political party would have a chance to win the Midwest and the South if everyone on the coasts didn't think the Midwest and the South was a conservative hellscape and... oh what am I saying, they'd all move to the big cities, which are gerrymandered into impotency when it comes to setting policy and choosing who runs the damn state. (god I am so glad that Louisiana managed to go…

I've come close to death multiple times because those conservative hellscapes can't be bothered to salt their roads. Big government does offer some perks.

Re: Amazon Liable for Defective Third-Party Products Rules CA Appellate Court

#265

Post by ip26 »

saddlerustle wrote: post #213
ip26 wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I've bought oximeters on Amazon in years past and there was no General Electric, Sony, Samsung... It was all knockoff no-name low quality.

I don't think General Electric, Sony or Samsung make standalone consumer pulse oximeters.

The point is, there was no recognized & respected brand that sells a high quality product. Just a bunch of fly-by-night operations.

Re: Amazon Liable for Defective Third-Party Products Rules CA Appellate Court

#266

Post by throwanem »

concernedctzn wrote: post #249
throwanem wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, no, you got lucky with that - I found out Amazon can't be trusted with high-ticket items by getting a $1200 lens that turned out to be gray market. Works fine, but I better hope I never need warranty service. Amazon can't be trusted with high-ticket items, including but not limited to camera equipment. Go to B&H or Adorama, or Newegg or Micro Center for high-ticket computer parts (cf. the recent spate of GPU sc…

Didn't newegg get bought a while ago and allows the same knockoffs in their market? I'm honestly not sure where to turn these days

I haven't had trouble with Newegg, but I think the last thing I bought there was a RAID controller, and that's been a year or two ago now. Mostly I prefer Micro Center these days, and mostly that's just because they opened a local store so I can just go there. That said, I've never had problems with gray market or counterfeit stuff ordering from Micro Center online, so if you're uncomfortable with Newegg and Micro Center can ship to where you are, they're who I would first recommend.

Re: Amazon Liable for Defective Third-Party Products Rules CA Appellate Court

#267

Post by acranox »

concernedctzn wrote: post #249
throwanem wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, no, you got lucky with that - I found out Amazon can't be trusted with high-ticket items by getting a $1200 lens that turned out to be gray market. Works fine, but I better hope I never need warranty service. Amazon can't be trusted with high-ticket items, including but not limited to camera equipment. Go to B&H or Adorama, or Newegg or Micro Center for high-ticket computer parts (cf. the recent spate of GPU sc…

Didn't newegg get bought a while ago and allows the same knockoffs in their market? I'm honestly not sure where to turn these days

I think Newegg is still okay if you limit to buying stuff from Newegg as the seller. Their marketplace is definitely full of junk.

Re: Amazon Liable for Defective Third-Party Products Rules CA Appellate Court

#268

Post by ChuckMcM »

myself248 wrote: post #181
imglorp wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then maybe this return policy will only apply to buyers in CA?

Now I'm wondering if I can establish personal nexus in CA sufficient to qualify for such protections, while continuing to reside in place without all the Californians...

Sounds like a variation of the Texas joke.

That said, California (like Texas) is a large enough state that you can find pretty much any community you feel comfortable with here. You can also find any climate you feel comfortable with (except for Arctic), and you can find a house at any price you may want to pay, but you may not be able to find a union of the choices.

As such, generalizations rarely achieve the goal intended unless that goal is to inflame.

An alternative would be establishing a similar legal notion of strict liability in the jurisdiction where you happen to reside. This requires that you give up none of the features of your current residence, rather it involves becoming more active in its governance which, frankly, is something I wish more people would do.

Re: Amazon Liable for Defective Third-Party Products Rules CA Appellate Court

#269

Post by rasz »

an_opabinia wrote: post #64
ashtonkem wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More specifically, the responsibility for chasing down the manufacturer for a refund is shifted onto the retailer, not the consumer.

Has Amazon systemically refuses refunds for people who try to return counterfeit goods? It definitely doesn’t care if you don’t even notice. But they do the returns if you ask. The former is what needs to change.

return? you mean knowingly transport illegal goods across state and international borders?

18 U.S.C. § 2314 (1994)) (indicating that shipping counterfeit merchandise across state lines “may violate laws prohibiting the interstate transportation of stolen property”

Re: Amazon Liable for Defective Third-Party Products Rules CA Appellate Court

#270

Post by Natanael_L »

the-dude wrote: post #177
Red_Leaves_Flyy wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then Amazon nukes your account.

Which account is getting nuked? The buyers or the sellers?

Depending on Amazon's mood that day, the answer might be "yes"
Post reply on HN