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Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

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Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#71

Post by fountainofage »

kbos87 wrote: post #24

It seems very tough to draw any conclusions on this just yet. The media has clearly latched onto a storyline of a mass exodus from American cities, but the reality is probably much more complex. It seems plausible that SF already had such low inventory numbers that any change would look huge on a chart like this, though that doesn’t appear to be the case in the other highly competitive markets seen here. I’d love to…

> But cities have enduring appeal - proximity to people and culture and things to do

I think this is key right here. For the foreseeable future, those things won't be any more available in an expensive city compared to an inexpensive rural area. So why buy a 1 bedroom for $2 million or rent one for $3500 a month if I can do the exact same amount of networking and see the exact same amount of museums while paying significantly less?

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#72

Post by arrty88 »

In big cities like SF and NYC a majority of people are on the summer lease cycle. Every summer you either have to renew the same tired old place for a 2-5% increase, or you jump to a new landlord and spend promotion/bonus/raise in a modern new building.

The past 2 months the streets in my NYC neighborhood have been littered with moving vans and my floor has all but emptied out.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#73

Post by tjr225 »

fountainofage wrote: post #71
kbos87 wrote: post #24

It seems very tough to draw any conclusions on this just yet. The media has clearly latched onto a storyline of a mass exodus from American cities, but the reality is probably much more complex. It seems plausible that SF already had such low inventory numbers that any change would look huge on a chart like this, though that doesn’t appear to be the case in the other highly competitive markets seen here. I’d love to…

> But cities have enduring appeal - proximity to people and culture and things to do I think this is key right here. For the foreseeable future, those things won't be any more available in an expensive city compared to an inexpensive rural area. So why buy a 1 bedroom for $2 million or rent one for $3500 a month if I can do the exact same amount of networking and see the exact same amount of museums while paying sign…

Culture and things to do include a lot more than just networking and museums.

One example for instance is the vast amount of unique natural beauty surrounding the Bay Area.

Even rural places that have that are also expensive- though admittedly not nearly as much so. This is generally reflected in salary though.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#74

Post by jeffbee »

x87678r wrote: post #45
jurassic wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Property taxes are not that relevant for the masses who can't afford to buy property.

It is because a big chunk of your rent goes to property taxes. Where I am property taxes are $1k a month for a $3k/mo apartment.

Property tax is not an input to setting the market rate of rental housing, though. Changing the tax does not change the rent. Ask yourself if your rent would decrease if they decreased the taxes. Rent is a simple supply/demand system.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#75

Post by jhowell »

kbos87 wrote: post #24

It seems very tough to draw any conclusions on this just yet. The media has clearly latched onto a storyline of a mass exodus from American cities, but the reality is probably much more complex. It seems plausible that SF already had such low inventory numbers that any change would look huge on a chart like this, though that doesn’t appear to be the case in the other highly competitive markets seen here. I’d love to…

> It also seems plausible that SF has a unique combination of factors that put it in a bad spot right now. It’s insanely expensive, quality of life has been on the decline for some time, and the types of companies that made real estate there so expensive in the first place are also likely to be the ones that adopt remote work quickly and wholeheartedly.

I imagine people at the fringes in the city (and region really), born and raised, with local family ties making it harder to leave, might feel that this "bad spot" appeared some time ago.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#76

Post by exabrial »

Please just keep the bad ideas there. There was complete control of the local, county, and state government with an unlimited budget fueled by reckless and out of control taxation. If the ideas pandered there couldn't work in that Utopia then it won't work anywhere else.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#77

Post by ghaff »

arrty88 wrote: post #72

In big cities like SF and NYC a majority of people are on the summer lease cycle. Every summer you either have to renew the same tired old place for a 2-5% increase, or you jump to a new landlord and spend promotion/bonus/raise in a modern new building. The past 2 months the streets in my NYC neighborhood have been littered with moving vans and my floor has all but emptied out.

Yes, although among (former) urban people I know, the difference is that for those who were at least toying with the idea of moving out of the city the current situation was the trigger to do something this cycle. This has included everything from people renting an hour-plus out of the city or even moving to rural areas hours away.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#78

Post by jod53 »

wwwwwwwww wrote: post #59
roenxi wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All analogies break down fairly quickly, so I'll preface this with a clear vote of support for what you said. But in this case the purpose of a hospital is to provide for the sick. The purpose of a city is to do the opposite of homelessness - a city is a massive collection of homes. The existence of a large homeless population is concerning for reasons you allude to, but because a more appropriate analogy might be "t…

> the purpose of a hospital is to provide for the sick And the purpose of society is to provide for its people. All of them.

Perhaps true for society depending on your views, but the point of a city is simply somewhere many people want to live together. A sign of a healthy city is steady growth, this could be from the opportunities available or the attractiveness of the quality of life of the city. For Sf, the opportunity aspect is strong enough so people are willing to overlook the widespread homelessness.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#79

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

_8j50 wrote: post #61
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I’m not sure who you’re telling this to. Most people don’t have the time or energy to lead city reforms on their own. Their choices are to stay or leave, and it seems an increasing number of people are picking leave.

Well to do people who can afford to leave also complain about homeless shelters in their neighborhood. I wasn't suggesting leading a reform but attacking the root cause by changing your opinion and the opinions of others.

There’s a homeless shelter 2 blocks away from me, and I’m perfectly fine with it. The residents are great people as far as I can tell; I smile and wave when I see them, and I don’t begrudge the occasional panhandler or guy mumbling to himself.

I mention all that to be very clear about what I mean when I say, I wouldn’t agree to live near a San Francisco homeless shelter either. I just can’t tolerate people screaming at me all the time or scattering used needles on the sidewalk outside, and definitely couldn’t ask friends or family to tolerate it.

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