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Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

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Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#821

Post by nvarsj »

aikah wrote: post #476
CarbyAu wrote: post #430

The problem here is Apples user market capture. Through iOS devices Apple has created a market of users they are the very protective gatekeeper for. Windows PC user market. Not locked down. Though MS has a store you have Steam, EGS, GOG, Origin, UBS etc for games alone. Let alone productivity apps. Android market. Not locked down. Though google play store is the gorilla other stores exist. I like F-Droid. EPICS Unrea…

What Apple achieved is very rare in the industry. They achieved both complete horizontal and vertical integration for all their products. Even Microsoft kind of failed to do this. Most computers sold running Windows are not built by Microsoft.

Well, the government used to enforce antitrust laws. Microsoft got into a huge anti-trust battle over simply bundling Internet Explorer with Windows. Compare this to the state of iOS, which is in far worse shape - internal APIs that only Apple apps can use, Safari can never be completely removed or replaced, the App store shenanigans, etc. It's a testament to the complete capture of Washington by corporate lobbyists that Apple gets away with it.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#822

Post by speedgoose »

andy_ppp wrote: post #267

Let’s be honest, this has been coming for a while, like the ever increasing length, irritation and regularity of YouTube ads, Apple has been training you to accept an App Store only Mac. My guess is the Arm Macs will knock everyone’s socks off with freakish thinness, unreal battery life and performance, be extremely cheap and completely lock down the computer to Apple taking 30% of every piece of software you purchas…

I don't think Apple want to be seen as a producer of cheap products.

But I agree, there is a risk that Apple locks down its platform even more.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#823

Post by alkonaut »

speleding wrote: post #815
hijklmno wrote: post #696

It's not Apple vs. Fortnite. It's actually Apple vs. Users. Apple has been taking us for a ride this whole time. We pay damn much and buy the phone. It is the user's property from then on. What the user install's and uninstall's from his phone should be his decision. Taking a cut of say, 3%, to keep the app store running is forgivable. But 30% digging into users pocket is unpardonable. Apple is no longer the underdog…

> 3% to keep the app store running is forgivable Payment processing alone would cost Apple that much. You easily lose 1.5%-2% in payment fees and another 2% in handling fraud and customer support queries about payments. For example, if a payment for an app is $1.99, Apple now takes $0.60. If a customer calls support to ask a question about the purchase it can cost anywhere from $15 to $30 in call center fees, so it t…

If we disregard the app purchase (which few complain about) and focus on in-app purchases now. E.g. for buying fortnite hats or netflix subscriptions, where the in-app purchase is NOT processed by apple, surely that can't give rise to any kind of added costs for apple (customer support, transaction costs)?

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#824

Post by McDyver »

mobilemidget wrote: post #771
rottingfruit wrote: post #752

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason I, and I assume many others, have less of a problem with that is that you can fairly easily still download and play fortnite without the Play Store. As far as I know that’s not an option on iOS outside of jailbreaking your phone.

It's App Store policy and payment handling within apps, not so much about being to install it. I don't like to see trillion new payment providers, I also don't like to see monopolies. It's a very long and big discussion. But I do wonder, can and _would_ you do payments in a non store app with their own payment provider? E.g. the fortnite you have downloaded and installed outside of the play store?

If you already downloaded if from outside the app store, why do you need to use an in-app payment provider?

At this point it's just like any software on your computer, you can pay outside of it, and use a code or similar to indicate you paid for it.

It's only a matter of convenience to want to pay in-app. It can also be a lock-in strategy from the developer - and this is what this whole thread is about.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#825

Post by wickedsickeune »

dustinmoris wrote: post #791
wickedsickeune wrote: post #783

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if a company advertises a product as a walled garden, specifically claims that one of the things it does is to vet and prohibit apps which violate their guidelines Could you please show me such an advertisement? I do not really follow Apple, and have failed to encounter it. Further, what if I'm a user, who wants to purchase the hardware (and even operating system), but does not want the added security. Mind you tha…

> Further, what if I'm a user, who wants to purchase the hardware (and even operating system), but does not want the added security. Mind you that Apple has their own CPU and OS which is unlike anything in the competition. Tough luck my friend. I mean only because you want something unreasonable doesn't make it a right. Example: What if I want to buy the engine of a Ferrari but not pay the price for a Ferrari and jus…

Isn't though the point of software, to be easily transferable from device to device? Otherwise we've just reinvented hardware.

My point is that a car is a complete piece of hardware, all of which is necessary for it to fulfil its purpose, while computers have the advantage (over other machines) to be easily modified by software.

You are correct that my wishes should not affect others, but what about the wishes/needs of multiple people? Even if it's just a wish/personal preference, and not a fundamental property of software, should people's opinion affect private corporations directly?

All of this assuming that there are multiple people who agree with the notion of software freedom.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#826

Post by speleding »

alkonaut wrote: post #823
speleding wrote: post #815

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 3% to keep the app store running is forgivable Payment processing alone would cost Apple that much. You easily lose 1.5%-2% in payment fees and another 2% in handling fraud and customer support queries about payments. For example, if a payment for an app is $1.99, Apple now takes $0.60. If a customer calls support to ask a question about the purchase it can cost anywhere from $15 to $30 in call center fees, so it t…

If we disregard the app purchase (which few complain about) and focus on in-app purchases now. E.g. for buying fortnite hats or netflix subscriptions, where the in-app purchase is NOT processed by apple, surely that can't give rise to any kind of added costs for apple (customer support, transaction costs)?

In-app purchases are processed by apple as well.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#827

Post by ralfn »

vogre wrote: post #810
hijklmno wrote: post #696

It's not Apple vs. Fortnite. It's actually Apple vs. Users. Apple has been taking us for a ride this whole time. We pay damn much and buy the phone. It is the user's property from then on. What the user install's and uninstall's from his phone should be his decision. Taking a cut of say, 3%, to keep the app store running is forgivable. But 30% digging into users pocket is unpardonable. Apple is no longer the underdog…

>Taking a cut of say, 3%, to keep the app store running is forgivable. But 30% digging into users pocket is unpardonable. What makes you think that 3% cut is enough?

Because its the sort of above most transaction fees of most payment providers in the world.

But Apple can ask whatever they want. They can't block side-loading though. That's the uncompetitive part.

You can run your store and pick whatever terms you like. You can't use your marketshare in hardware sales to bundle a forced store.

Imagine Tesla charging you 30% of any grocery shopping (i.e. would refuse to open the doors if the store didn't share 30% of its gross revenue).

I mean, its literally, textbook anti-competitive. The App Store as a store isn't competing fairly, on its own merits.

Also keep in mind, that this whole getting raped with transaction fees is a 'america-only' thing. This is much better regulated in the rest of the world.

Specifically the costs are fixed, so anything that is a percentage is just fucking nonsense. It doesn't cost more to charge 5 euro's than it does to charge 1 euro. It uses the same electricity, the same personel costs. There is a point where its get more expensive because of risk management, but thats above 100 euro per transaction.

Percentages on transactions are generally only allowed when its a loan. Which is why Americans are always buying things with credit cards ("loaning the money"). Most people pay for things with their own money, not with a loan. (i.e. direct bank transfer). And those transactions have a fixed transaction costs. Worst case 1 euro (low-volume, your personal webshop) all the way down to 5 euro cent (high-volume, i.e. the supermarket).

So explain to me where the hell you get your 3% from? You just sound like an already boiled frog saying 'are you sure we can survive in cold water?'

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#828

Post by fastball »

nouveaux wrote: post #353
ffggvv wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you’re comparing hardware to software which i don’t think is fair. apple creates the marketplace, the OS, and the hardware. it’s a much more complex issue which is more analogous to if windows required all users to use internet explorer, which we know is monopolistic. there’s also much more friction switching software like stripe than hardware like your iphone

I'm not sure why it's not the same. Apple could just sell the hardware. Here Apple is selling the hardware and providing a marketplace for apps. There is virtually no difference between the App Store and using the browser to buy things from Amazon. The argument is that Apple should provide the ability to sell things on the App Store with out a cut. Amazon by the same argument should be forced to do the same. You can…

Apple distributes the app. They should be able to take a 30% cut for that if they wish.

However, my app has an unlimited subscription. Accepting payment for this is handled by Stripe. Once the app is on the users device, if a user subscribes to the unlimited plan, why should I have to pay 30% to Apple? They are not delivering that service in any way, shape, or form.

A better analogy would be that I buy a Nespresso machine on Amazon. Some of that goes to Amazon for facilitating the transaction and delivering it to me, some goes to Nespresso for actually making the device. Then I get a pod subscription from Nespresso. Amazon then says that because the machine was originally bought on Amazon, they are entitled to a 30% cut of that ongoing subscription price, even though the subscription is neither facilitated nor fulfilled by Amazon.

I think we can all agree that would be ridiculous. That is what Apple is doing.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#829

Post by Waterfall »

hijklmno wrote: post #696

It's not Apple vs. Fortnite. It's actually Apple vs. Users. Apple has been taking us for a ride this whole time. We pay damn much and buy the phone. It is the user's property from then on. What the user install's and uninstall's from his phone should be his decision. Taking a cut of say, 3%, to keep the app store running is forgivable. But 30% digging into users pocket is unpardonable. Apple is no longer the underdog…

In their profit reports I am told that the 30% is not profit it just maintains the app store. I read that from some jailbreakers, they seemed legit since it was talking about how apple locks it down too much. It was in the earnings report, so they didn't have a reason to lie (I think). I wonder if they cook the numbers or something to lie about it.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#830

Post by rimliu »

anilakar wrote: post #718
pferde wrote: post #706

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What monopoly? Nobody is forcing you to buy Apple and enter into their rotten walled garden. If you "pay damn much and buy the phone", you are doing it of your own volition. "Take the power back" by not continuing to give them your money.

Uninformed consumers will normalize the abusive behavior and pricing by buying the product. Mocking and complaining about unacceptable business practices is everyone's right and responsibility.

Pro tip: having different opinion than yours does not make someone "uninformed". It may, or may not be true.
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