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Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

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Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#711

Post by hijklmno »

pferde wrote: post #706
hijklmno wrote: post #696

It's not Apple vs. Fortnite. It's actually Apple vs. Users. Apple has been taking us for a ride this whole time. We pay damn much and buy the phone. It is the user's property from then on. What the user install's and uninstall's from his phone should be his decision. Taking a cut of say, 3%, to keep the app store running is forgivable. But 30% digging into users pocket is unpardonable. Apple is no longer the underdog…

What monopoly? Nobody is forcing you to buy Apple and enter into their rotten walled garden. If you "pay damn much and buy the phone", you are doing it of your own volition. "Take the power back" by not continuing to give them your money.

Take the money back and go where? Live in a hut? It's such enabling behaviors that embolden these elitists to lord over our lives. You can't let anyone be a gatekeeper to technology and progress. This applies to every major tech player. And this is the time that we need to make our voices heard.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#712

Post by czzr »

jamesblonde wrote: post #703

Hey HN mods! "spanhandler" is making a lot of cogent arguments in favor of Apple in this thread, like the voice of somebody with 20+ years in the industry. He also has a karma of 700+ after only opening the account 16 days ago. His entire comment history is to bash people arguing for open standards - see this thread, firefox threads, etc. I cannot think of any motivation for any techie to create an account to spread…

You want to shut down someone making, in your words, “cogent arguments”, because you disagree with their point of view and because other people seem to agree with them?

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#713

Post by danShumway »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #705
danShumway wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would the ability to sideload apps force you to install apps outside of the Apple store? I'm not forced to use FDroid just because I have an Android phone. People aren't arguing that the app store should go away, just that consumers should have a choice. As an analogy, if I want OEM care for my car, I can get that. It's more expensive, but it offers me strict guarantees about where parts are coming from, and I do…

> The existence of a third-party marketplace doesn't change anything about that situation People will install insecure app stores to get a hot app. Facebook would likely launch a store with none of Apple’s spyware restrictions. Cisco and IBM and Microsoft would too, and with that come e.g. employer mandates for certain apps and thus certain stores. Apple regulates its App Store. Remove its distribution control and th…

> Facebook would likely launch a store with none of Apple’s spyware restrictions.

Why haven't they done this on Android already? Why aren't my employers currently mandating that I install 3rd-party stores on Android phones?

Most Android users I know have never installed an Android app outside of the official Play store. Why haven't companies taken advantage of them yet?

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#714

Post by greendesk »

greendesk wrote: post #708
mapgrep wrote: post #198

You could argue about Apple's rights, or citizens' free speech rights, or consumer rights, under existing law. It would be an interesting discussion because I think it's a lot more complicated an issue that most people appreciate. But really why not talk about how we think things should work on platforms like iOS? What should the law be? What protects essential human rights, encourages creativity, and allows business…

I will want a clearly marked difference in brands. One brand can be where the restrictions are associated under a common service. Another brand can be all-you-want-install set of stores. I have had cases maintaining systems where the common denominator was to reinstall a system. In the hypothetical scenario where iOS permits active side loading of applications, then there should be, in my opinion, two separate brands…

There are options outside iOS/Android. See the Firefox Mobile OS. I do expect these to be successful. But I will find it harder of what I used to call iOS changes in having non-conforming set of not-vetted applications.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#715

Post by skc »

Ehh, this is the bed the tech press made, quite frankly.

Yes, I'm still bitter at how any attempts at a third mobile platform were brutally laughed off by the tech media, often unfairly and with undertones of glee.

Now we are in this very strange situation where Apple can rightfully claim not to be a monopoly, Google can simply ape what Apple does, and fans of either platform can tell naysayers to kick rocks if they don't like it.

Sad.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#716

Post by drrotmos »

43920 wrote: post #372
wheelie_boy wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A big part of the value of iPhones and iPads is that you don't have to worry about installing an app that screws up your system and requires a wipe & reinstall. You don't have to worry about viruses. You don't have to worry about spending a lot of time being a system administrator, and just use it. You don't even have to worry about many types of malware, because the system protects you from poorly-behaved applicatio…

I would argue that the technical limitations of iOS are what accomplishes this, rather than app review. For a malicious actor, sneaking prohibited behavior past app review is incredibly easy - look at what Fortnite just did! The reason that apps on iOS can't damage your device is that apps are sandboxed, and that the OS requires user permission to access data and places limits on how many resources an app can use. Th…

IIRC Apple has the ability to push a blacklist of apps that has slipped through the review, preventing them from running, not just from being installed. To my understanding, they've only ever used it for actual malware though, not for apps that they've pulled from the App Store due to "regular" breaches of the rules.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#717

Post by BoboDupla »

binthere wrote: post #654

Simple question to whoever is honestly defending Apple: What if Windows prevented people from installing anything on their computer except from the Microsoft Store. Then Microsoft forced every app to use their payment system and then charged an excessive 30% fee for each transaction. Would you think that's an abusive and illegal practice?

I might be mistaken, but wasn't this the policy Apple had since the beginning of AppStore? Every developer and user knew from the beginning what they are getting into. With Windows it is different, no? It would be a drastic change to a product, which operated differently at the beginning.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#718

Post by anilakar »

pferde wrote: post #706
hijklmno wrote: post #696

It's not Apple vs. Fortnite. It's actually Apple vs. Users. Apple has been taking us for a ride this whole time. We pay damn much and buy the phone. It is the user's property from then on. What the user install's and uninstall's from his phone should be his decision. Taking a cut of say, 3%, to keep the app store running is forgivable. But 30% digging into users pocket is unpardonable. Apple is no longer the underdog…

What monopoly? Nobody is forcing you to buy Apple and enter into their rotten walled garden. If you "pay damn much and buy the phone", you are doing it of your own volition. "Take the power back" by not continuing to give them your money.

Uninformed consumers will normalize the abusive behavior and pricing by buying the product. Mocking and complaining about unacceptable business practices is everyone's right and responsibility.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#719

Post by lub »

dustinmoris wrote: post #698
mapgrep wrote: post #198

You could argue about Apple's rights, or citizens' free speech rights, or consumer rights, under existing law. It would be an interesting discussion because I think it's a lot more complicated an issue that most people appreciate. But really why not talk about how we think things should work on platforms like iOS? What should the law be? What protects essential human rights, encourages creativity, and allows business…

> Personally, I would argue that consumers should have a legal right to install whatever software they wish on a product they have purchased, including onto the bundled operating system I fundamentally disagree and this is also a misrepresentation of the current situation. If I buy an open operating system which advertises that I can run on it what pleases me then I should have the right to carry out this freedom of…

> It's like saying I bought a petrol car but I should have a legal right to fill it up with Diesel or make it work with electricity. It's illogical. The packaging said petrol and so I knownlingly bought petrol.

Though it's not really uncommon to modify a car for autogas or electric. Often it's also possible to change the radio receiver to e.g. one with android car.

I kinda expect the same freedom to modify other products including smartphones.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#720

Post by tomgp »

xnyan wrote: post #556
risyachka wrote: post #492

I have been and iOS developer for many years and my main problem with Apple is that it treats small and big developers very differently. Their policies are not applied to all, just like with Google. But as far as I understand Apple is not a monopoly. So why should they allow users to install app from any source if they made their OS specifically in a way that doesn't allow it? It is a product feature. And pricing pol…

The monopoly Apple has is the paid mobile software market. The difference between software sales on the Google play store and and the iOS App Store are pretty staggering. I have no expertise in the law so I can’t tell you that’s it a monopoly in the US legal sense (if i had to guess, no) but it absolutely is one in practice. It makes sense that developers, particularly powerful ones like epic, would argue that it is.

That's a good point re the fact that Apple offers the only viable mobile paid software market place. For me it raises the question of whether forcing them via law/regulation to change their model would in practice have the knock on effect of destroying that market, making iOS more android like in terms of developer profitability for all but the Epic-like titans.
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