Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#561

Post by wruza » Fri, Aug 14, 2020, 4:26 AM UTC

ss3000 wrote: post #478

ace_of_spades wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let‘s take the example of an autonomous car. Would you also argue that you have the right to run any software on it? Looking a bit further down the line toward a society with more prevalent and powerful AI there will need to be some kind of certification that the software you are running is safe. It will be almost impossible to enforce this without the help of device manufacturers who will be mandated to only run saf…

The thing is, an open ecosystem that allows users to run any software they want on their devices already exists, including on Apple devices, in the form of the Web. And despite all of its flaws it's the most successful software deployment platform the world has ever seen, to the point where even Apple can't afford to not include it on their platforms when we all know they'd rather not, because it's simply too valuabl…

The web doesn't run on its own platform. It does run on browsers, which are controlled by few careful instances. Mobile browsers are subject to the same rules as any other app and most popular browsers are owned by lower level platforms, separated from website/webapp owners. It is not the same as side-loading. Web analogy would work if websites were executable binaries or if browsers were much less restrictive. It is an open ecosystem under a strictest environment ever made. Nobody is going to download your random binary as mindlessly as they tap on a-hrefs.

Following the idea you present, Epic should just start making browser games with in-game purchases just over a credit card. Why doesn't it then? What's wrong with the web that Epic couldn't just publish on playfortnite.com and that'd be it?

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#562

Post by msh » Fri, Aug 14, 2020, 4:28 AM UTC

throwaway140820 wrote: post #543

Apologies for the extreme swearing that ensues. Wow, I would have hoped for better support from the HN community. Instead there are apologists after apologists. So what if Epic is big. Really, seriously shouldn't we have had alternative app stores available form the official ones. Why is this even a point of debate? All the time we hear stories of people one of our own getting fucked by these app stores and their lor…

Why does epic single out two platforms and not also sue Microsoft (Xbox), Sony and Nintendo. Seems like double standards to me.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#563

Post by staunch » Fri, Aug 14, 2020, 4:29 AM UTC

throwaway140820 wrote: post #543

Apologies for the extreme swearing that ensues. Wow, I would have hoped for better support from the HN community. Instead there are apologists after apologists. So what if Epic is big. Really, seriously shouldn't we have had alternative app stores available form the official ones. Why is this even a point of debate? All the time we hear stories of people one of our own getting fucked by these app stores and their lor…

These people must also have no idea what Tim Sweeney (Epic founder) is like as a person. This guy is a genius programmer that never sought great wealth for its own sake but happened upon it through creating huge amounts of value and happiness in the world. He's someone who has been preserving wilderness by buying up large swaths of land to keep it safe. He's a good and principled person.

He's NOT a money-grubbing two-faced CEO. He's the real deal and he clearly believes that what Apple and Google are doing is wrong. He's also willing to put his money where his mouth is, unlike anyone else.

He deserves to be lauded and respected for what he's doing here. Someone has to stand up to Apple and Google and he's the only one putting in the time, effort, and money to do it.

Tim Sweeney is the hero of this story and everyone should be backing him up.

And in the grand scheme of things, users would be much better off without being restricted to app stores. The era of closed devices ought to be ended by laws. Running arbitrary software on personal computing devices should be protected by Right to Repair or Fair Use laws.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#564

Post by sircastor » Fri, Aug 14, 2020, 4:30 AM UTC

sealthedeal wrote: post #542

ccktlmazeltov wrote: post #540

I'm tired of this kind of bullshit. I can't buy books on the kindle app, I can't play Apple music on my google mini, I can't install the PAX app for my vape on iOS, and now that. Yet there isn't enough abuse from Apple to make us switch to another platform. Without regulation this situation will never be fixed.

regulation is not the answer. The market aka the consumer will solve this on its own.

I like to think that this would be resolved by the market, but if that were the case, why hasn’t It happened. Apple has been acting this way for 12 years. They haven’t changed their tune. The singular real market alternative is android, which still suffers from fragmentation issues. Microsoft, one of the most powerful companies in the world, couldn’t make their option work. Amazon, one of the most powerful companies in the world couldn’t get people onboard with their non-google version of Android. BlackBerry, the most powerful company in the space before Apple couldn’t keep their devices competitive. Palm, the leader before BlackBerry couldn’t make their OS stick.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#565

Post by whateveracct » Fri, Aug 14, 2020, 4:30 AM UTC

jhardy54 wrote: post #551

throwaway6000 wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Apple establishes rules that EVERY app publisher follows for YEARS. 2. Fortnite doesn't follow rule. 3. Apple kicks Fortnite out of the App store. What were they expecting?

They were expecting to get kicked out of the app store so that they could file a lawsuit and challenge the app store monopoly. How is that unclear?

Gonna sue Nintendo if they don't let your game in the eshop?

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#566

Post by the_hoser » Fri, Aug 14, 2020, 4:30 AM UTC

msh wrote: post #562

throwaway140820 wrote: post #543

Apologies for the extreme swearing that ensues. Wow, I would have hoped for better support from the HN community. Instead there are apologists after apologists. So what if Epic is big. Really, seriously shouldn't we have had alternative app stores available form the official ones. Why is this even a point of debate? All the time we hear stories of people one of our own getting fucked by these app stores and their lor…

Why does epic single out two platforms and not also sue Microsoft (Xbox), Sony and Nintendo. Seems like double standards to me.

Much harder to win against them. Depending on how this goes, they're probably next.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#567

Post by shallowthought » Fri, Aug 14, 2020, 4:30 AM UTC

Because they were bypassing the approval process, which exists for a good reason, otherwise they wouldn't expend so many resources on it, sorry for being reasonable and obvious, we can all go back to scouring the shadows now.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#568

Post by throwaway140820 » Fri, Aug 14, 2020, 4:31 AM UTC

msh wrote: post #562

throwaway140820 wrote: post #543

Apologies for the extreme swearing that ensues. Wow, I would have hoped for better support from the HN community. Instead there are apologists after apologists. So what if Epic is big. Really, seriously shouldn't we have had alternative app stores available form the official ones. Why is this even a point of debate? All the time we hear stories of people one of our own getting fucked by these app stores and their lor…

Why does epic single out two platforms and not also sue Microsoft (Xbox), Sony and Nintendo. Seems like double standards to me.

Can we please have a precedent set, once that starts I am confident other walled gardens will come down too. Also gaming consoles are not an essential part of life, at least not in my country where people usually can't afford to indulge in those luxuries.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#569

Post by popeathlete » Fri, Aug 14, 2020, 4:32 AM UTC

throwaway140820 wrote: post #560

popeathlete wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Epic is no better. Trading one owner for another makes no difference in the best case. It's either free and open source and user-focused or nothing.

So if Epic wins, will Epic be able to stop other stores from coming up? In what scenario do you see US (you, me, we) winning? The one where Epic loses or one where it wins?

There's no win for us here. Just corporate bullshit.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#570

Post by jlbnjmn » Fri, Aug 14, 2020, 4:33 AM UTC

dilse wrote: post #499

Genuine question: Do flight travel booking companies pay commission to Apple for any bookings made via App? If not, isn't this a differential treatment?

Or buying things in the Amazon app. Are they charged 30%?

Perhaps Epic could argue that their app is actually a shopping platform with game like features.

I'm sure there are many other apps that are free to sell products without paying a cut to Apple.

That would make it seem like this is targeting games and subscriptions.