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Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

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Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#551

Post by jhardy54 »

throwaway6000 wrote: post #549
throwaway140820 wrote: post #543

Apologies for the extreme swearing that ensues. Wow, I would have hoped for better support from the HN community. Instead there are apologists after apologists. So what if Epic is big. Really, seriously shouldn't we have had alternative app stores available form the official ones. Why is this even a point of debate? All the time we hear stories of people one of our own getting fucked by these app stores and their lor…

1. Apple establishes rules that EVERY app publisher follows for YEARS. 2. Fortnite doesn't follow rule. 3. Apple kicks Fortnite out of the App store. What were they expecting?

They were expecting to get kicked out of the app store so that they could file a lawsuit and challenge the app store monopoly. How is that unclear?

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#552

Post by [deleted] »

throwaway6000 wrote: post #549
throwaway140820 wrote: post #543

Apologies for the extreme swearing that ensues. Wow, I would have hoped for better support from the HN community. Instead there are apologists after apologists. So what if Epic is big. Really, seriously shouldn't we have had alternative app stores available form the official ones. Why is this even a point of debate? All the time we hear stories of people one of our own getting fucked by these app stores and their lor…

1. Apple establishes rules that EVERY app publisher follows for YEARS. 2. Fortnite doesn't follow rule. 3. Apple kicks Fortnite out of the App store. What were they expecting?

[deleted]

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#553

Post by popeathlete »

throwaway140820 wrote: post #543

Apologies for the extreme swearing that ensues. Wow, I would have hoped for better support from the HN community. Instead there are apologists after apologists. So what if Epic is big. Really, seriously shouldn't we have had alternative app stores available form the official ones. Why is this even a point of debate? All the time we hear stories of people one of our own getting fucked by these app stores and their lor…

Epic is no better. Trading one owner for another makes no difference in the best case. It's either free and open source and user-focused or nothing.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#554

Post by throwaway6000 »

jhardy54 wrote: post #551
throwaway6000 wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Apple establishes rules that EVERY app publisher follows for YEARS. 2. Fortnite doesn't follow rule. 3. Apple kicks Fortnite out of the App store. What were they expecting?

They were expecting to get kicked out of the app store so that they could file a lawsuit and challenge the app store monopoly. How is that unclear?

app store "monopoly"? No one's forcing you to use the Apple ecosystem. it's called Android.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#555

Post by etchalon »

Sargos wrote: post #486
BurningFrog wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does anyone have any argument for why this right would be a bad thing? For one thing, that is how you get viruses. This is amusingly similar to the mask refusal arguments. > People would get bad software on their phones, but last I checked, this is happening already "My proposal would lead to bad things, but there already are bad things" is a terrible argument.

People are perfectly free to use Apple App Store and stay free from viruses and have a nice curated environment. Nothing changes for them if you allow sideloading. The ONLY change is that you have the OPTION to run software Apple doesn't officially sanction. That's just a basic freedom right there and it's hard to see any rational argument against it.

The rational argument is that the ability to side-load applications would be exploited by the nefarious and the clever to take advantage to naive users.

If a website can convince someone to download a "new version of the Flash Player", those same websites will convince someone to "side-load this application to protect against identity theft!"

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#556

Post by xnyan »

risyachka wrote: post #492

I have been and iOS developer for many years and my main problem with Apple is that it treats small and big developers very differently. Their policies are not applied to all, just like with Google. But as far as I understand Apple is not a monopoly. So why should they allow users to install app from any source if they made their OS specifically in a way that doesn't allow it? It is a product feature. And pricing pol…

The monopoly Apple has is the paid mobile software market. The difference between software sales on the Google play store and and the iOS App Store are pretty staggering. I have no expertise in the law so I can’t tell you that’s it a monopoly in the US legal sense (if i had to guess, no) but it absolutely is one in practice. It makes sense that developers, particularly powerful ones like epic, would argue that it is.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#557

Post by ckocagil »

pmcollins wrote: post #296
mapgrep wrote: post #198

You could argue about Apple's rights, or citizens' free speech rights, or consumer rights, under existing law. It would be an interesting discussion because I think it's a lot more complicated an issue that most people appreciate. But really why not talk about how we think things should work on platforms like iOS? What should the law be? What protects essential human rights, encourages creativity, and allows business…

What if you take the App Store to an extreme? Say, the App Store is so successful that iPhones and Macs are almost free -- paid for by the lifetime expected amount Apple will make from any and all apps sold on those devices. Would this be bad for the consumer? I feel like this is Apple's perspective: the app store subsidizes devices and helps consumers. OTOH, the thing about Epic is I think they're incredibly generou…

One could argue that it would be bad for the consumer since their subsidized divisions have zero incentive to improve. It's nearly impossible to beat a free offering, so no competition will arise. Therefore innovation halts.

This is what Google's been doing for years. In a healthy market we could have incredible email providers, video hosting services, calendars and whatnot.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#558

Post by nl »

the-pigeon wrote: post #105
bluedevil2k wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TOS can't violate laws though. A contract that is in violation of the law isn't enforceable. Epic is looking for a judgement to make it illegal.

Expanding on this. The idea that a large platform like iOS can only have apps loaded through a market place controlled by the hardware manufactured is clearly in violation of the spirit of anti-trust laws. However there's no legal precedent on this because no one with deep enough pockets to fight Apple has been angry enough to do it yet. Meaning this could be great news for everyone if this goes to court and Apple lo…

While I agree with Epic's aim with this lawsuit, one should note that this has no basis in anything except wishes:

> The idea that a large platform like iOS can only have apps loaded through a market place controlled by the hardware manufactured is clearly in violation of the spirit of anti-trust laws.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#560

Post by throwaway140820 »

popeathlete wrote: post #553
throwaway140820 wrote: post #543

Apologies for the extreme swearing that ensues. Wow, I would have hoped for better support from the HN community. Instead there are apologists after apologists. So what if Epic is big. Really, seriously shouldn't we have had alternative app stores available form the official ones. Why is this even a point of debate? All the time we hear stories of people one of our own getting fucked by these app stores and their lor…

Epic is no better. Trading one owner for another makes no difference in the best case. It's either free and open source and user-focused or nothing.

So if Epic wins, will Epic be able to stop other stores from coming up? In what scenario do you see US (you, me, we) winning? The one where Epic loses or one where it wins?
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