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Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

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Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#471
post #4
post #2

Main discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24146902

Also Vox media is a clickbait site - the same one that attacked people for social distancing to avoid Covid earlier this year as 'tech bros'. Most of articles on Verge/Vox are blogspam around other sources adding little to no value. Engadget covers gadgets, Ars Technica covers wider issues, the rest probably won't be popular on HN.

On HN we go by article quality, not site quality. The big sites all have occasional good stuff among reams of...less good stuff.

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#472
post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the parody, but it's not really equivalent. The original Apple parody was to convince consumers to switch from one platform (PC) to a different platform (Mac). Now, maybe you believe Apple, in the form of iOS, has become Big Brother. Fine, in that case, Epic should provide its own gaming platform. But Epic isn't trying to destroy Big Brother here. It still wants to run on Big Brother's platform. It just doesn'…

Epic stated that they want to create their own separate app store outside of apple, but are unable to because apple does not allow sideloading. So no, Epic doesn't want to run on Big Brother's platform.

> Epic stated that they want to create their own separate app store outside of apple, but are unable to because apple does not allow sideloading.

That argument would ring less hollow had they done that on the platform that does allow side loading, but they eventually published on the Google Play store.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#473

If I go to the App Store on my phone, and go to my "Purchased" list, Fortnite is still listed there. I wasn't up to date, and clicking on "update" gives the message: "Fortnite" No Longer Available. The developer has removed this app from the App Store. Interesting wording. I wonder if they only have one message for pulled-by-Apple vs pulled-by-dev?

To me it feels just poor wording, like often in the app store.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#474

Epic Games has filed a lawsuit [1] and published a Fortnite-themed parody of Apple's "1984" [2] to get some publicity for it. [1] https://cdn2.unrealengine.com/apple-complaint-734589783.pdf [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euiSHuaw6Q4

Epic!

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#475

You could argue about Apple's rights, or citizens' free speech rights, or consumer rights, under existing law. It would be an interesting discussion because I think it's a lot more complicated an issue that most people appreciate. But really why not talk about how we think things should work on platforms like iOS? What should the law be? What protects essential human rights, encourages creativity, and allows business…

Talking about should is well and good so long as we remember that many things which have been implemented with the intent of helping ended up being very bad

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#476

The problem here is Apples user market capture. Through iOS devices Apple has created a market of users they are the very protective gatekeeper for. Windows PC user market. Not locked down. Though MS has a store you have Steam, EGS, GOG, Origin, UBS etc for games alone. Let alone productivity apps. Android market. Not locked down. Though google play store is the gorilla other stores exist. I like F-Droid. EPICS Unrea…

What Apple achieved is very rare in the industry. They achieved both complete horizontal and vertical integration for all their products.

Even Microsoft kind of failed to do this. Most computers sold running Windows are not built by Microsoft.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#477

You could argue about Apple's rights, or citizens' free speech rights, or consumer rights, under existing law. It would be an interesting discussion because I think it's a lot more complicated an issue that most people appreciate. But really why not talk about how we think things should work on platforms like iOS? What should the law be? What protects essential human rights, encourages creativity, and allows business…

> Does anyone have any argument for why this right would be a bad thing?

For one thing, that is how you get viruses. This is amusingly similar to the mask refusal arguments.

> People would get bad software on their phones, but last I checked, this is happening already

"My proposal would lead to bad things, but there already are bad things" is a terrible argument.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#478

You could argue about Apple's rights, or citizens' free speech rights, or consumer rights, under existing law. It would be an interesting discussion because I think it's a lot more complicated an issue that most people appreciate. But really why not talk about how we think things should work on platforms like iOS? What should the law be? What protects essential human rights, encourages creativity, and allows business…

Let‘s take the example of an autonomous car. Would you also argue that you have the right to run any software on it? Looking a bit further down the line toward a society with more prevalent and powerful AI there will need to be some kind of certification that the software you are running is safe. It will be almost impossible to enforce this without the help of device manufacturers who will be mandated to only run saf…

The thing is, an open ecosystem that allows users to run any software they want on their devices already exists, including on Apple devices, in the form of the Web.

And despite all of its flaws it's the most successful software deployment platform the world has ever seen, to the point where even Apple can't afford to not include it on their platforms when we all know they'd rather not, because it's simply too valuable to consumers and would make their devices obsolete if they didn't include it.

There's no central gatekeeper for the web, and sure, it has its dark corners, but it has not devolved into absolute chaos as you so adamantly suggest all such ecosystems would, and continues to deliver such an incredible amount value to consumers and businesses alike.

The web was only possible because it was developed in an era before everybody was using closed down devices where the manufacturer dictates what software you can run on it. And at this rate, if the web ever falls out of favor (and Apple for one is doing everything it can to make sure it does), you can definitely be sure that nothing like it will ever be allowed to exist again.

As a community of founders and makers, I'm sure we can all imagine what a sad world it would be to live in if we had to first convince some platform gatekeeper that our idea is worthwhile and make sure our ideas don't conflict with their interests before being allowed to turn our ideas into reality and deliver them to users, let alone having to pay a cut of our revenues to them for the privilege.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#479
post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that a lot of people actually like how hard it is to sideload content onto an iPhone, because it effectively bricks stolen ones, which is a pretty good deterrent.

That same type of control bricks it for you at the OS level when they decide your device is too old (aka you haven't paid them often enough).

No? My old iPad 2 still works and can download apps from the App Store, albeit many apps don't support the iOS 9 it still has since it's super old. Given that it came with iOS 4, i'm happy with the 5 years of updates it got and how it still works.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Epic effectively pulled it themselves when they unilaterally broke their agreement. I think Apple's cut is egregious but at the same time, they're not a monopoly. My main gripe is that they're behaving as if they're bringing value that the developers are riding on, when in reality nobody would buy iPhones if it weren't for the value that many developers are bringing to the platform, often at no cost to Apple.

Apple has 49-65% of the phone+tablet market in the USA. People keep forgetting it's irrelevant if Android is more popular the world over. Countries only bring anti-monopoly decisions based on their country's market, not the world market. Further, the market for "smartphones" is not Apple vs Google. It's Apple vs Samsung vs Motorola vs LG vs Sony. Those are smartphone makers. At the 50%+ marketshare, Apple has more th…

> Further, as pointed out elsewhere you don't have to have a monopoly for being sued for anti-competitive behavior.

Conversely, you can have a monopoly and commit abuses and get away with it in the pro-business United States. Microsoft is noticeably intact, despite what we may have wanted to happen in the late 90s.

Apple realistically has more to fear in Europe.

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