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Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

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Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#311

Post by mabbo »

luisfmh wrote: post #257
smnrchrds wrote: post #160

Discussion of Apple topics here on HN almost always gets reduced to the argument that Apple is not a monopoly, so what they are doing is OK. I want to present an alternative viewpoint. It's not a monopoly issue, it is an anti-competitive issue. In Canada, we have three major cell carriers. None of them has a monopoly, or anything close to it. None of them has even 50% market share. You can have a 10 GB smartphone pla…

Not to contradict your point, because I agree fully, but given how concisely you put it, I'd be interested in what your thoughts are on Freedom Mobile? I know they're kind of independent, but also their coverage sucks.

I used them for years and quite liked them. Inside a city, you can usually get good coverage. Outside of the cities, you paid a little extra.

But this was back when the best they offered was 3G, and their signal quality wasn't great. After a few incidents where I was downtown in Toronto, full bars of signal, yet couldn't open a single webpage or use my data, I decided it was time to ditch them. I loath the big-3, but I needed reliable service.

I've heard that after they installed their LTE/4G towers, most of those problems went away. Maybe I'll go back, eventually, but for now I'll be gouged like most Canadians.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#312

Post by basch »

nrb wrote: post #108
basch wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple can argue its 30% surcharge protects consumers from their payment information being tied to each individual product, making canceling easier and buying things safer.

... and competitors do the same for less than a tenth of that cost. The only thing that allows them to do so is complete control over the ecosystem to shut out all competition.

That's literally the value add Apple is selling. A completely controlled ecosystem not infiltrated by 20 payment middle men. Youre paying a premium for noise filtering.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#313

Post by Someone »

aaomidi wrote: post #253
Someone wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not doing anything might be worse. Within a month, all major money-making apps would make a similar move, hiding the functionality from Apple’s review process and then activating it once most of their users have upgraded. Apple could spend time and money trying to find such hidden features, but that would mean many major apps would see no updates. That’s a losing game, too, even if they are successful at detecting su…

> Allowing this is guaranteeing the end of the App Store Is it though? Has the play store ended because Google allows side loading? The issue here is Apple simply doesn't really take risks and innovate to be the first in an industry. They take existing tech, polish them VERY well, and then try to make a lot of money off of it. Problem is they're trying to leverage their position to run other companies out of business…

End of the App Store because all high-grossing products would stop bringing in money.

Doesn’t take risks? They spent lots of money on hardware for machining aluminium (a move that turned out good, I think), developed the Touch Bar (got mixed reviews), a new keyboard (not that successfully), decided to move to ARM CPUs in the desktop (potentially, that could bite them in the future. If x86 CPUs ever become faster than Apple ones, the speed difference with Windows may lose them customers for their high-margin devices), etc.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#314

Post by basch »

josephcsible wrote: post #258
basch wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple can argue its 30% surcharge protects consumers from their payment information being tied to each individual product, making canceling easier and buying things safer.

If that were the legitimate reason, then they could accomplish the same goal by requiring all in-app purchases to have the option of going through them, rather than exclusively going through them. Then people who cared enough to pay the 30% Apple tax could have that protection, and the rest of us could save a lot of money.

I agree that is a sensible compromise, like login. "If you support our competitors, you must support our implementation to benefit from placement in our index."

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#315

Post by ptudan »

pythonaut_16 wrote: post #286
meheleventyone wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Epic only takes a cut when revenue exceeds one million dollars and then only 5% which is considerably less than 30% on every transaction. I don’t think Epic are against fees so much as against ones as high as in the App Store.

The Unreal Engine license is like Epic giving you a toolbox for no upfront cost, but charging you 5% of whatever revenue you generate selling goods made using the toolbox. The App store comission is like Apple charging you 30% anytime you sell one of those goods to someone who lives in an Apple branded house. (To complete the analogy, maybe you're a door to door salesman and Apple charges you a "sidewalk usage fee" o…

How is the apple app store and development kit etc etc not a toolbox? Granted 30% is a ridiculous cut.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#316

Post by Noos »

60secz wrote: post #228
badwolf wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a more apt comparison would be... If a developer doesn't like Xbox's terms, there are other gaming platforms...

Game console to General computing device isn't exactly apples to apples. But yes, It'd be great if users could install unsigned apps on all the devices they own.

If by great you mean "great for malware makers" I guess so. HN has a big problem of pushing for changes hat benefit highly tech-literate people but in reality the majority of the market needs signed apps so they don't download harmful programs.

I think people need to stop looking at their own immediate interests and start considering long term aspects of things. You can't just throw out technology now without understanding how it empowers bad actors, because it amplifies them too.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#317

Post by laumars »

damnyou wrote: post #242
laumars wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Businesses don’t exist to define a moral compass. They exist to make money. Any large and successful company will happily play the “do as I say and not as I do” card as often as they think they’ll get away with it. I’m not saying it’s right but it’s pointless being shocked by the hypocrisy of the logic that businesses are run by.

Businesses are legal fictions. There is no inherent reason shareholders should be the only constituency businesses serve.

There’s plenty of businesses that aren’t just motivated by profit. However the businesses that rise to the top are obviously going to be those who are more aggressively profit driven. This is why my previous comment made a distinction about company size rather than making a blanket statement about all companies.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#318

Post by foepys »

cocktailpeanuts wrote: post #167

It's interesting how the industry is shaking up in so many different ways lately. 1. TikTok and WeChat getting banned (This will also have a huge side effect for Apple) 2. Uber and Lyft regulated to classify drivers as employees 3. Influential companies trying to tear down the Apple payment walled garden (Last time it was Hey, but this time it's Fortnite, which is infinitely more formidable). Now the only thing left…

You could say that the disruption is being disrupted.

Regulators are slowly getting sick of the tech industry's behavior of overthrowing markets by VC-ing out competitors to establish their own monopoly all while dodging taxes through global schemes.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#319

Post by foepys »

tomxor wrote: post #307

The quantity of twitter replies along these lines is sad: > Why would epic even do this.... they know the rules. Why would they expect to use another companies platform for free. With apple 100% on this. Use? they add value to the platform, Apple is just double dipping because crazy hardware markup wasn't enough for them. Are people really this blind?

I wonder if people were still with Apple if Apple charged them 30% for using Apple Pay.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#320

Post by beached_whale »

smnrchrds wrote: post #259
beached_whale wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For locations in Canada with a local cell provider or internet provider, the pricing is much better. Either lower prices, more services for price point, or a combination of both. I suspect this is/was part of the push to get non-incumbents into the cell market.

Even then, it's just a matter of time before they get assimilated into the Borg. Manitoba used to have MTS, until it was bought by Bell. I would not be surprised if in 20 years Vidéotron and SaksTel would be long gone too.

That's actually interesting too, the prices went up I think after they sold. Good evidence for people opposed to further actions like that
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