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Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

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Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#221

Post by wvenable »

CubsFan1060 wrote: post #30
threatofrain wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a user I'm quite happy with Apple intermediating my relationship with companies that seek to do business with me over the phone, and I'd actually be happier if Apple took over more of my relationships. I don't want a situation where 10 apps means 10 different privacy agreements. I also don't want to deal with app companies directly for returns or their custom payment solutions — an "Amazon" is way better.

Additionally, 10 different payment systems. I trust Apple. I'd like to buy whatever subscription, but now "Joe's email app" wants my credit card number. Now I have to figure out if I trust them as well.

I don't see the problem here -- Epic adds their own payment option in addition to Apple's. I believe Apple could mandate that they always be allowed as an option like they do with sign-ons. If you only trust Apple and you want to pay 20-30% more for your purchases that can still be an option.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#223

Post by threatofrain »

Barrin92 wrote: post #54
donor20 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good lord - on HN the monopoly comments are so crazy sometimes. What is the monopoly issue Apple has? Use android if you don't like Apple's product line. Apple is at 22% share.

>on HN the monopoly comments are so crazy sometimes what's crazy is harping on a technicality about the word "monopoly" and then to ignore the actual issue that is implied by the criticism, market power. Even two companies aren't a market, if you get hung up about monopoly call it a duopoly. The state of affairs is ridiculous. There should be a thriving market of competing stores, payment systems, operating systems a…

It's strange that there are different hardware vendors, it's just that making your own software experience seems suicidal. Perhaps in an alternative reality, the US government would've invested in Firefox OS among other competing projects.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#224

Post by tectec »

moron4hire wrote: post #139
lfowles wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Doesn’t Epic take a cut out of every single purchase made of a game built with Unreal Engine? Only those that make >$1mil lifetime gross.

Note that $1mil lifetime revenue is a very low boundary. A very small consulting operation of 2 or 3 people could easily hit that in a year or two. A single freelancer could probably hit it in 4 or 5 years. It's easy to read "a million dollars!" And think "we're rich!", but running any business has a lot of overhead.

What does consulting have to do with games?

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#225

Post by linuxhansl »

chrisshroba wrote: post #99
shajznnckfke wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and I'd actually be happier if Apple took over more of my relationships. I’m really curious what you mean by this. Which additional transactions do you wish Apple would take a 30% cut on? You DoorDash orders, your rent, your salary?

> Which additional transactions do you wish Apple would take a 30% cut on? That's not what they said. Apple already handles payment processing via Apple Pay for real world goods (Amazon, Food delivery, Wish), and does not take a cut of the transaction. Some people see Apple controlling payments for many companies as monopolistic and overreaching, but some (like the parent poster and myself to a degree) see it as a sa…

Then can't they handle Epic's payments that way instead of - presumably - taking a 30% cut?

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#226

Post by josephcsible »

wmf wrote: post #106
xoxoy wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

30% is extremely high by any reasonable standard for any marketplace

FWIW brick and mortar stores usually take 40%.

Brick-and-mortar stores provide useful services and have high costs. Neither applies to the Apple App Store in this case.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#227

Post by almost_usual »

paulgb wrote: post #201
almost_usual wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn’t be opposed to this but Apple could make a case that using a competing app store voids warranty or care because they can no longer guarantee the software is ‘safe’ for iOS.

General computing platforms, in which you can run arbitrary unsigned code without violating the warranty, exist. In fact, Apple has a major business in manufacturing them (MacBook, etc.)

This could fly for iPad, the iPhone they can make a case it jeopardizes the reliability in contacting emergency services.

Overall this will go over most law makers heads because they are technically incompetent.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#228

Post by 60secz »

badwolf wrote: post #134
slongfield wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a developer doesn't like Unreal's terms, there are other game engines. If a developer doesn't like Apple's terms, there are no viable alternatives for iOS distribution.

I think a more apt comparison would be... If a developer doesn't like Xbox's terms, there are other gaming platforms...

Game console to General computing device isn't exactly apples to apples. But yes, It'd be great if users could install unsigned apps on all the devices they own.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#229

Post by Sargos »

This is a highly technical forum so I really think all of the "Apple is within their rights to determine what software users can run" folks should think about how they would feel if Windows could only run software that Microsoft publishes. Are you okay with that? Does the fact that Linux exists make this okay? It sounds like the answer from a lot of people is "Yes, of course" which baffles me.

It doesn't take much imagination to see how different the world would be if a single corporation decided what software was allowed to be used by society. Anything that is the least bit controversial wouldn't exist. Napster, Torrents, Emulators etc are obvious and people would no doubt argue they shouldn't exist anyway, but I imagine even web browsers themselves (Apple already doesn't allow them on iOS), networking tools like IPFS, game streaming services (also banned by Apple), etc just wouldn't exist in that world. I could go on with examples but that's the point, there's a LOT of creativity and complexity out there and it's impossible for a single gatekeeper to do a good job of deciding what has a right to exist.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#230

Post by rriepe »

nostrademons wrote: post #206
xoxoy wrote: post #8

Fortnite of course expected this: seems like they’ve prepared a short video mocking Apple’s old super bowl ad 1984 to premiere in an hour https://twitter.com/fortnitegame/status/1293984290326433792?...

They also just filed a lawsuit (see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24147486 ). The strategist in me thinks that Epic Payments is a provocation rather than a product, they've been in touch with state attorney generals about Apple's antitrust situation, and the real goal is to get that lawsuit out, bring the antitrust hammer down on Apple, and maybe get some free PR and marketing from the press cycle.

It's a great move. The industry needs a new platform hero since Valve seem completely distracted by VR.
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