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Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

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Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#281

Post by etimberg »

jaegerpicker wrote: post #102
etimberg wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing forces you to use Apple, but you are forced to use Apple's app store.

In what way? If I don't want to use or develop for the app store ... I just don't, I build for Google Play or the Web. Nothing forces me to use Apple Hardware and if I want to use Apple Hardware I have to agree to the terms.

If you are a user of an iPhone you cannot get an app from elsewhere. If I develop an app and sell if for $4.99 on the app store (price based on projections of downloads, how much apple takes, etc needed to make my money back). However I could offer the same app for $3.99 on an appstore that took a more reasonable percentage cut and get more downloads since lots of users are price sensitive. From this perspective, it looks like a textbook case where prices are higher for consumers due to the lack of competition.

Even if one builds for the web, apple only allows a single browser engine which is their own. They unilaterally can decide what to implement and what features to add or remove.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#283

Post by shajznnckfke »

threatofrain wrote: post #260
shajznnckfke wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and I'd actually be happier if Apple took over more of my relationships. I’m really curious what you mean by this. Which additional transactions do you wish Apple would take a 30% cut on? You DoorDash orders, your rent, your salary?

Isn't the situation similar with Amazon? And how much higher are the prices for the consumers, in return for the Amazon experience? What is the Amazon tax to the consumer?

I believe Amazon’s cut is 15% and eBay’s is 10%.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#284

Post by josephcsible »

heavyset_go wrote: post #77

Apple and Google are able to gatekeep what you can install on entire generations of devices, from smartphones to tablets. Their power to gatekeep billion dollar markets needs to be looked at through the lens of antitrust legislation.

Don't lump Google in with Apple here. Android lets you sideload apps.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#285

Post by simion314 »

threatofrain wrote: post #21
FreakyT wrote: post #4

Really hoping regulators crack down hard on Apple's clearly anticompetitive practices. If Apple allowed sideloading the entire point would be, of course, moot, but Apple's continued refusal to allow this is really the biggest problem, IMO.

As a user I'm quite happy with Apple intermediating my relationship with companies that seek to do business with me over the phone, and I'd actually be happier if Apple took over more of my relationships. I don't want a situation where 10 apps means 10 different privacy agreements. I also don't want to deal with app companies directly for returns or their custom payment solutions — an "Amazon" is way better.

Nobody is forcing you to side load apps. Just because someone say has the option to install an application that Apple censored it it does not mean you are also forced to install that application.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#286

Post by pythonaut_16 »

meheleventyone wrote: post #75
ecf wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn’t Epic take a cut out of every single purchase made of a game built with Unreal Engine? Seems kinda hypocritical that they’re taking this stance when their licensing model is arguably just as burdensome on developers. In my opinion, Epic should not put their app on the App Store if they don’t like the terms, just as they would tell a developer to not use their engine if they don’t like the terms.

Epic only takes a cut when revenue exceeds one million dollars and then only 5% which is considerably less than 30% on every transaction. I don’t think Epic are against fees so much as against ones as high as in the App Store.

The Unreal Engine license is like Epic giving you a toolbox for no upfront cost, but charging you 5% of whatever revenue you generate selling goods made using the toolbox.

The App store comission is like Apple charging you 30% anytime you sell one of those goods to someone who lives in an Apple branded house. (To complete the analogy, maybe you're a door to door salesman and Apple charges you a "sidewalk usage fee" or something)

One (Unreal Engine) is a licensing agreement for a tool with no upfront cost; the other is a tax on any sale made to an end user.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#287

Post by dudus »

musicale wrote: post #235
smnrchrds wrote: post #160

Discussion of Apple topics here on HN almost always gets reduced to the argument that Apple is not a monopoly, so what they are doing is OK. I want to present an alternative viewpoint. It's not a monopoly issue, it is an anti-competitive issue. In Canada, we have three major cell carriers. None of them has a monopoly, or anything close to it. None of them has even 50% market share. You can have a 10 GB smartphone pla…

I think this is called tacit collusion. You see something like this with gasoline pricing - major brands will have "competing" stations across the street from each other, but their prices moves in lock step without a race to the bottom. Memory vendors have explicitly colluded in the past, but they really didn't need to - they just needed to copy their competitors' posted pricing. Presumably that is what they do now.…

I believe the correct term is Cartel and is just as illegal as monopoly just harder to prove.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#288

Post by FriendlyNormie »

smnrchrds wrote: post #160

Discussion of Apple topics here on HN almost always gets reduced to the argument that Apple is not a monopoly, so what they are doing is OK. I want to present an alternative viewpoint. It's not a monopoly issue, it is an anti-competitive issue. In Canada, we have three major cell carriers. None of them has a monopoly, or anything close to it. None of them has even 50% market share. You can have a 10 GB smartphone pla…

No post body was provided.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#289

Post by MikusR »

heavyset_go wrote: post #77

Apple and Google are able to gatekeep what you can install on entire generations of devices, from smartphones to tablets. Their power to gatekeep billion dollar markets needs to be looked at through the lens of antitrust legislation.

Apple yes. Google no. You can install 3rd party stores and freely sideload apps.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#290

Post by yazaddaruvala »

mamurphy wrote: post #169
almost_usual wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

are you suggesting they were threatened?

are you suggesting they had any alternative if they wanted to pursue iPhone customers?

Epic doesn't need to pursue Apple iPhone customers they same way Epic doesn't need to pursue Sony Bravia customers.

This is the same as Bungee not needing to pursue Playstation customers to make Halo what it is.

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