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Uber CEO says its service will probably shut down temporarily in California

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Re: Uber CEO says its service will probably shut down temporarily in California

#771

Post by diebeforei485 »

jonahhorowitz wrote: post #607
jjcon wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you but I also think that they should have waited. Right now is a terrible time to wipe out the gig economy. So many people are turning to it and it is creating value. Economic/employment changes like this one are best suited when the market is strong because people job mobility is higher etc.

There was no choice to "wait". AB5 was passed to fix the law because of a court decision [0]. Had they (the CA Legislature) not passed AB5, the court finding in Dynamex would be just as bad for Uber. The court doesn't have an option to "wait" just because it's a recession. Uber doesn't have a choice to "wait" because this ruling is going to go into effect in ~10 days unless the stay is extended. [0] - https://scocal.…

The authors of AB5 took the liberty of exempting certain professions (presumably influential voter blocs and donors) from Dynamex.[1]

If you drive delivering beverages, whether you're an employee or contractor under AB5 depends on whether or not that beverage is milk.

I don't see why they couldn't have anything in there for rideshare.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtm...

Re: Uber CEO says its service will probably shut down temporarily in California

#772

Post by [deleted] »

tlogan wrote: post #734
pininja wrote: post #166

I work at Uber outside of the rides/eats business and observed many feature releases to adjust the business after AB5. What I saw released: - Enabling drivers to see where a rider is going before accepting the trip [0] [2] - Removed a main penalty for declining rides, “No More 85% Acceptance Rate Requirement For Uber Pro” [2] - Drivers get set their own fare with a multiplier [1] (the article details screenshots and…

The goal of AB5 is to help drivers - so they can get health insurance, etc. All these changes Uber is doing just so that drivers are not employees. The question here is: what is the problem with making drivers employees? How much money that will be?

[deleted]

Re: Uber CEO says its service will probably shut down temporarily in California

#773

Post by diebeforei485 »

Barrin92 wrote: post #722
mlrtime wrote: post #677

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DeBlasio is a clown and is ruining NYC.

That's a legitimate point of view but that in no way or case justified what Uber did. For context[1], when NYC passed legislation that would have adversely affected the business, they put a "de Blasio's Uber" button into the app encouraging people to contact the mayor's office, basically spamming the office with mail. And before you think that's because they're staunch believers of civic protest, as the article point…

This sort of stuff is great. It's similar to when talk radio hosts tell people to call their representatives and give the phone number of that representative's office.

I see nothing wrong in this.

Re: Uber CEO says its service will probably shut down temporarily in California

#774

Post by freeone3000 »

tlogan wrote: post #734
pininja wrote: post #166

I work at Uber outside of the rides/eats business and observed many feature releases to adjust the business after AB5. What I saw released: - Enabling drivers to see where a rider is going before accepting the trip [0] [2] - Removed a main penalty for declining rides, “No More 85% Acceptance Rate Requirement For Uber Pro” [2] - Drivers get set their own fare with a multiplier [1] (the article details screenshots and…

The goal of AB5 is to help drivers - so they can get health insurance, etc. All these changes Uber is doing just so that drivers are not employees. The question here is: what is the problem with making drivers employees? How much money that will be?

Average monthly pay for an Uber driver is $400. Not all of them will qualify for health insurance, as you have to work 30 hours a week.

Median health insurance cost is $600.

Re: Uber CEO says its service will probably shut down temporarily in California

#775

Post by claudiawerner »

lhh wrote: post #769
claudiawerner wrote: post #755

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I challenge your premise that it's possible to consider a labor relationship exploitative if both parties voluntarily enter into it. This is a philosophical point, and there are scholars working in economics and economic philosophy who have argued that some kind of mutual benefit is does not preclude exploitation. See for example J.E Roemer, Roberto Veneziani, and Nikolos Vrousalis, three economists on the matter. S…

I'm not arguing that "because they benefit they're therefore not being exploited". I'm arguing that "because they voluntarily enter into the agreement with full information they're therefore not being exploited". Or have I misunderstood your point?

Some of the economists/philosophers I mentioned do not make the point that ignorance is sufficient and necessary for exploitation, rather, even with all the information (and perhaps even with perfect information), some such situations can still be said to be exploitative. This is because interesting cases of exploitation actually arise out of lack of means or institutional pressures, not a lack of information about one's means or ignorance of the institutional pressures.

Re: Uber CEO says its service will probably shut down temporarily in California

#776

Post by cwkoss »

mountainboy wrote: post #728

there are a lot of drivers in California with extra space and free time. there are a lot of people that need rides. There was a company that facilitated these two meeting and took a cut of payments. It does not need to be a company. It can be an autonomous entity, eg a smart contract. Think ethereum + ipfs. just by way of example. in other words, cut out the middle-man. Remove the target for governments to pressure a…

Not sure ridesharing is the best fit for decentralized solutions. A big role of these companies is performing background checks and dispute resolution, and those seem hard to do in a trustless decentralized system without exposing loopholes that can be exploited.

Re: Uber CEO says its service will probably shut down temporarily in California

#777

Post by chillacy »

justinzollars wrote: post #240
chillacy wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In case someone actually wants to read Atlas Shrugged, I did actually read it. It's a fictional world where the strawmen business people are happen to always be good and moral, and are oppressed by the strawman government people who are bad and greedy. Also the author occasionally has her characters go on multi-page speeches, for instance about how we ought to be using gold for currency. In case it's not clear, Atlas…

Francisco D'Anconia's Money Speech - Atlas Shrugged (poor quality): https://youtu.be/u-T0ey0IKDA

I recall reading that. It's all very true, but it also glosses over the fact that some people acquire money through regulatory capture, violent crime, inheritance, etc, etc.

I think capitalism is the best system we have, but Atlas Shrugged espouses a rosy picture of anarcho-capitalism like Marx espouses a rosy picture of anarcho-communism that doesn't work when real humans come into play.

I've come to believe that having market forces bring out the best in society is a state of constant work to cultivate those forces in a human direction.

Re: Uber CEO says its service will probably shut down temporarily in California

#778

Post by freeone3000 »

fastball wrote: post #703
raducu wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a "contractor", but yeah, if you only work for one company for X months, you should be an employee. If all your money comes via a single company, even if you phisically work at a different place each day, you should be an employee of that company.

That's kinda the problem with ride-sharing though. Many (most) drivers are driving with multiple apps.

Many, many people in the US are employed with multiple companies at a time. Everyone who "works two jobs". Employment is not exclusive.

Re: Uber CEO says its service will probably shut down temporarily in California

#779

Post by freeone3000 »

raducu wrote: post #525
floatrock wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> which leaves the drivers with less work overall. ...which is a positive feedback loop that should encourage them to pick up those previously declined routes. Or charge higher rates that better reflect their reluctance for those routes. Isn't that how supply & demand is supposed to work?

But how can you then claim you're better and cheaper than a taxi company?

Marketing material does not cause the universe to reassert itself.

Re: Uber CEO says its service will probably shut down temporarily in California

#780

Post by freeone3000 »

grumple wrote: post #511
londons_explore wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is disgusting how Lyft and Uber treat drivers with their A/B testing Society as a whole needs to answer the question "is it moral to roll a dice and offer a worse service to people who get an odd number?" In my view, it is. As far as that person is concerned, they can pretend your company doesn't exist and go to another company (and maybe roll another dice) Some other people would say "all businesses must treat…

I'm curious about whether a/b testing would be considered human subjects research and therefore governed by federal regulations. [1] I suspect that it will be in some cases. Does Uber have IRBs? What about other big tech companies? If you work in a company and see them doing something immoral and possibly illegal, you should speak up or report the behavior. 1. https://www.hhs.gov/ohrp/regulations-and-policy/decision-…

I work at a large tech company. I have to maintain a certification for human experimentation with my IRB. Usually, A/B testing falls outside of the experimentation framework as the actual feature in question cannot cause harm, is engaged with voluntarily, and users are already aware that the software changes arbitrarily (usually through marketing material as "continuous updates"). We usually only get into the human experimentation bit when we send out a survey or the like.
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