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Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

neomindlabs.com

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Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#311
post #86
post #3

> never underestimate the amount of money the FAANGs have to poach your talent. I really wish we'd stop using the word "poach". It's a loaded word with negative connotations, but what it really means here is "offer someone a better situation than you offered them". Employees have agency, they aren't wild elephants who need your "protection" from "predators" who just want to pay them more.

The thing that hits me is the "$500k+/year in the valley". Is this really a thing? Am I a giant dumbass for staying in Colorado? Even factoring in my stock grants, I'm nowhere close to that number.

I know top tier dual masters grads who have received close to this right out of college.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#312

I agree with the author's point about using popular tech stacks to alleviate the ramp-up time for new hire productivity, but that is not the optimal solution. The optimal solution is for management to not let high-productivity talent from leaving - increase their comp to whatever offers they might get in the open market. That's how labor economic works - it's a market. Investment bank and management consulting figure…

"The optimal solution is for management to not let high-productivity talent from leaving - increase their comp to whatever offers they might get in the open market." That might result in the engineer being paid more than the value of their contribution at their current employer. Many things could cause this, e.g. - the new employer is much more productive, can make better use of the engineer, and so can afford to pay…

I was literally asked "Do you think you are worth $x?" in an exit interview. Obviously I do, since that was the offer. What a strange question.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#314

Instead of "hit by a bus," I prefer the term "win the lotto." Any member of your team could win a life-changing amount of money in the lottery, inherit it, win a gambling bet, etc. Frame it as a good thing rather than a death or a change of hire - somebody might just flat out retire because they don't financially need your employment anymore.

I'm a fan of "hit by the lottery bus" myself.

That poor person would then need rocket surgery.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#315
post #3

> never underestimate the amount of money the FAANGs have to poach your talent. I really wish we'd stop using the word "poach". It's a loaded word with negative connotations, but what it really means here is "offer someone a better situation than you offered them". Employees have agency, they aren't wild elephants who need your "protection" from "predators" who just want to pay them more.

> Employees have agency, they aren't wild elephants who need your "protection" from "predators" who just want to pay them more.

I think your analogy is only slightly apt. I rather see the company being raided for talent as the prey. The employee as its ivory.

First, elephants are usually not being protected from predators, but rather from hunters (illegal ones). I know it might sound like a nitpick because the two words can be synonymous, but since this is about terminology, I think it's appropriate. At the time you lose an employee due to "poaching", they're often not unhappy with the conditions you've given them and are not actively looking for another position. But they have been spotted by a "head hunter" hired to find talent for a specific role in a different company.

Second, employees might not belong to a company, but some companies spend a lot of time nurturing their talent through various programs (knowledge transfer, mentoring, experimental projects, personal time), because they hope it will benefit them in the future. Time is not free, it's even dearer than money, but it's the currency we all have the same amount of. If we don't consider another company just swooping in at the 11th hour to simply reap what should've been your benefit as a form of legal "theft", then what should we consider it?

Maybe the solution for companies would be to put some of their employees under contract, like in sports. They'd pay substantially more for those services, but a clause would include them if another company was interested to acquire their talent. That or maybe some insurance companies may start offering some compensation against poaching.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#316
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all companies need $500k engineers or can afford them. An optimization at Netflix that improves performance by 1% may save them millions of dollars. The same optimization at a medium-size company may only save them a few thousand. Also, it's much more difficult to quantify the impact of a software engineer compared to investment bankers and consultants. The latter two are directly making money for the firm.

> Also, it's much more difficult to quantify the impact of a software engineer compared to investment bankers and consultants. The latter two are directly making money for the firm. Yes, it is difficult, but possible. Here's quick and dirty analysis - consider Sears, Walmart, and Amazon: - Amazon pays its engineers near top of market - $1.5T market cap. - Walmart has a pretty good engineering culture. They acquired a…

I deduce that investment in software engineers == higher stock price.

Easy to do when you cherry-pick three companies.

Run your analysis on 10,000 companies large and small and you might have something.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#317

I agree with the author's point about using popular tech stacks to alleviate the ramp-up time for new hire productivity, but that is not the optimal solution. The optimal solution is for management to not let high-productivity talent from leaving - increase their comp to whatever offers they might get in the open market. That's how labor economic works - it's a market. Investment bank and management consulting figure…

Somewhat related to this point: A large conglomerate I worked for managed to kill one of their major products by making the mistake of assuming that programmers are easy to replace with any other skilled programmer. So they moved a product team to a new office, knowing that the highest-paid people on the team would not choose to relocate, and assuming it would be easy to backfill them with inexpensive new hires at th…

Sounds similar to what happened to my team. In our case, it was "only" two years of hard-won domain expertise, but we were also "trained" by the original founders (who had left at some point after the acquisition). The new team had zero domain knowledge and while we tried to hand everything over as well as we could, it seemed like a lost cause to me. A couple of months later, we found out our old company ended up buying the competition.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#318
post #256
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Levels.fyi seems to indicate senior total comp as more like 300k in Bay Area for FAANG.

Google is ~$350K, Facebook is ~$375K, Amazon is ~$315K (and not known to pay well outside of equity appreciation), Apple is ~$320K for ICT4 which doesn't map well to Senior at the others, probably a bit low. Netflix is severely north of $300K but hard to say because there's just one title -- average at $450K.

Right: the grandparent was about north of $500k though which apparently seniors don't make, only higher levels. I'm surprised I was downvoted there?

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I really wish we'd stop using the word "poach". It's intentional language used by employers because it has preconceived notions and they succinctly communicate a story that benefits the employer. When you hear poached, you think illegal and victims. It makes you think that the employer has been wronged in some way and that the employee was both participatory in something illegal or at least underhanded and at the s…

> The reality is that the employee was being taken advantage of by the employer and received an offer more closely aligned with their actual value. In the vast majority of cases, I agree. If someone is working at CompuTech for $100K per year, and gets an offer from TechuComp for $110K per year, that's market forces working in favor of the developer. This is a good thing. But there is the possibility for entities the…

People want to work on their interests more than take more money after a certain amount is met. The real power of someone like Google isn’t just paying more money, it’s the variety of projects under its umbrella. They can entice curious cats better.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#320
post #171

I agree with the author's point about using popular tech stacks to alleviate the ramp-up time for new hire productivity, but that is not the optimal solution. The optimal solution is for management to not let high-productivity talent from leaving - increase their comp to whatever offers they might get in the open market. That's how labor economic works - it's a market. Investment bank and management consulting figure…

Not all companies need $500k engineers or can afford them. An optimization at Netflix that improves performance by 1% may save them millions of dollars. The same optimization at a medium-size company may only save them a few thousand. Also, it's much more difficult to quantify the impact of a software engineer compared to investment bankers and consultants. The latter two are directly making money for the firm.

I mean, "treating your employees better" doesn't necessarily always mean "paying them more". For one, giving good employees more autonomy and decision power, treating people like adults, focusing on their career development, etc., goes a long way too.
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