Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix • Hacker News Board

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#91

Post by non-entity » Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 5:40 PM UTC

JPKab wrote: post #86

paulgb wrote: post #3

> never underestimate the amount of money the FAANGs have to poach your talent. I really wish we'd stop using the word "poach". It's a loaded word with negative connotations, but what it really means here is "offer someone a better situation than you offered them". Employees have agency, they aren't wild elephants who need your "protection" from "predators" who just want to pay them more.

The thing that hits me is the "$500k+/year in the valley". Is this really a thing? Am I a giant dumbass for staying in Colorado? Even factoring in my stock grants, I'm nowhere close to that number.

I keep telling myself one day I'll try to make it, but by the time I feel comfortable with those interviews I'll probably be too old for FAANG lol.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#92

Post by tschwimmer » Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 5:41 PM UTC

game_the0ry wrote: post #23

I agree with the author's point about using popular tech stacks to alleviate the ramp-up time for new hire productivity, but that is not the optimal solution. The optimal solution is for management to not let high-productivity talent from leaving - increase their comp to whatever offers they might get in the open market. That's how labor economic works - it's a market. Investment bank and management consulting figure…

Investment Banks are a terrible example of low attrition workplaces, as attrition is quite high. It used to be the case (not sure if it still is) that expected attrition was ~100% after the first 2 years as an analyst as you were expected to go to B-school, the buyside or somewhere else.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#93

Post by thomascgalvin » Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 5:41 PM UTC

cptskippy wrote: post #64

paulgb wrote: post #3

> never underestimate the amount of money the FAANGs have to poach your talent. I really wish we'd stop using the word "poach". It's a loaded word with negative connotations, but what it really means here is "offer someone a better situation than you offered them". Employees have agency, they aren't wild elephants who need your "protection" from "predators" who just want to pay them more.

> I really wish we'd stop using the word "poach". It's intentional language used by employers because it has preconceived notions and they succinctly communicate a story that benefits the employer. When you hear poached, you think illegal and victims. It makes you think that the employer has been wronged in some way and that the employee was both participatory in something illegal or at least underhanded and at the s…

> The reality is that the employee was being taken advantage of by the employer and received an offer more closely aligned with their actual value.

In the vast majority of cases, I agree. If someone is working at CompuTech for $100K per year, and gets an offer from TechuComp for $110K per year, that's market forces working in favor of the developer. This is a good thing.

But there is the possibility for entities the size of Google to ignore market forces entirely in order to better position themselves. For example, a guy working on self-driving cars might command a salary of $400K in most cases, but Google or Tesla or someone might offer them $600K just to prevent competitors from having access to them.

Most companies couldn't afford to do that, but FAANG are so vastly wealthy that they can hire entire engineering teams as a loss leader.

This is still good for the developers involved, at least in the short term, but it isn't so great for the market, or society, overall.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#94

Post by crazygringo » Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 5:41 PM UTC

> you want more than one person in your business to have domain knowledge

> Everything gets a lot easier if you select the right software and framework

Huh? Domain knowledge doesn't refer to your tech stack or coding practices. It refers to why you've built things the way you've built them -- customer requirements, business requirements, technical requirements.

Ruby on Rails may improve onboarding time, but it has zero to do with domain knowledge.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#95

Post by Schiendelman » Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 5:41 PM UTC

JPKab wrote: post #86

paulgb wrote: post #3

> never underestimate the amount of money the FAANGs have to poach your talent. I really wish we'd stop using the word "poach". It's a loaded word with negative connotations, but what it really means here is "offer someone a better situation than you offered them". Employees have agency, they aren't wild elephants who need your "protection" from "predators" who just want to pay them more.

The thing that hits me is the "$500k+/year in the valley". Is this really a thing? Am I a giant dumbass for staying in Colorado? Even factoring in my stock grants, I'm nowhere close to that number.

Depends on your experience. If you're at a senior level, you can potentially get that from Google, Apple, or Netflix. You'll spend a lot more of it on housing, but you'll still come out ahead, by a lot.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#96

Post by thebluehawk » Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 5:42 PM UTC

jpxw wrote: post #72

LordKano wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Approximately 10 years ago, I was really unhappy with my work situation and was checking job postings. I found one that sounded right up my alley and I reached out to the agency that posted it. They told me that because I was working for another one of their clients, they wouldn't submit me for the job because they felt it was unethical. I responded that I wasn't owned by my employer and just as they were free to let…

Frankly their actions don’t seem particularly unreasonable to me.

Agreed. Like it sucks, but I can't fault any of the actors in this story. They are all just looking out for themselves.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#97

Post by faangFar » Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 5:42 PM UTC

hinkley wrote: post #70

thelean12 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like people try to tell themselves this, but money is BY FAR the most important factor. And FAANGs pay a ton. Maybe this can be true if you're going from like $250k to $270k from FAANG to FAANG. But most of the time we're talking about something like $180k to $250k when getting poached to a FAANG. It would take a huge amount of perks or otherwise to make that gap worth it. (Of course this isn't true for everyo…

I know a guy who passed on Apple because they weren't offering anywhere near that. Are a lot of people really seeing this kind of money?

Apple is known to live off Marketing. Wouldn't surprise me if they had low wages in favor of koolaid drinkers (for lack of a better term)

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#98

Post by theandrewbailey » Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 5:42 PM UTC

roland35 wrote: post #11

FAANG companies can certainly offer more money, but there are lots of things other companies can offer too (besides Ruby on Rails apparently). - ownership of the product and process - less red tape and politics - good work life balance - location other than Silicon Valley - boss who pays attention to engineer needs and wants Money is a huge factor but it isn't the only one!

> - location other than Silicon Valley

FAANGs have been embracing permanent work from home/anywhere over the past 5 months.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#99

Post by Schiendelman » Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 5:42 PM UTC

non-entity wrote: post #91

JPKab wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing that hits me is the "$500k+/year in the valley". Is this really a thing? Am I a giant dumbass for staying in Colorado? Even factoring in my stock grants, I'm nowhere close to that number.

I keep telling myself one day I'll try to make it, but by the time I feel comfortable with those interviews I'll probably be too old for FAANG lol.

If I may offer advice: Never tell yourself no. Go give it a shot, even if you don't prepare at all. You lose nothing.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#100

Post by zdragnar » Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 5:42 PM UTC

JPKab wrote: post #86

paulgb wrote: post #3

> never underestimate the amount of money the FAANGs have to poach your talent. I really wish we'd stop using the word "poach". It's a loaded word with negative connotations, but what it really means here is "offer someone a better situation than you offered them". Employees have agency, they aren't wild elephants who need your "protection" from "predators" who just want to pay them more.

The thing that hits me is the "$500k+/year in the valley". Is this really a thing? Am I a giant dumbass for staying in Colorado? Even factoring in my stock grants, I'm nowhere close to that number.

Netflix is, iirc, quite an outlier in terms of salary versus other types of comp. They are also not bashful of letting people go that don't meet their expectations.