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Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

neomindlabs.com

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Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#81

Post by pandaman »

ninkendo wrote: post #32
pandaman wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/poach 2 a: to take (game or fish) by illegal methods b: to appropriate (something) as one's own >>> c: to attract (someone, such as an employee or customer) away from a competitor <<<

Webster’s dictionary describes language as it is used, it doesn’t prescribe definitions. Citing a dictionary means nothing in a debate of whether we ought to use a word in a certain context.

It means something when somebody does not know the way the language is used.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#82

Post by somebodythere »

stormbeard wrote: post #65
ninkendo wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Webster’s dictionary describes language as it is used, it doesn’t prescribe definitions. Citing a dictionary means nothing in a debate of whether we ought to use a word in a certain context.

If everyone strictly used words based on what is “correct” English, the language would never evolve and we’d still be speaking Chaucer’s English.

True, but being intentional about the connotations of your language is still important.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#83

Post by outworlder »

mips_avatar wrote: post #49
game_the0ry wrote: post #23

I agree with the author's point about using popular tech stacks to alleviate the ramp-up time for new hire productivity, but that is not the optimal solution. The optimal solution is for management to not let high-productivity talent from leaving - increase their comp to whatever offers they might get in the open market. That's how labor economic works - it's a market. Investment bank and management consulting figure…

The tech companies do invest a certain amount into new-grads. If you are a new grad in Microsoft working on most products you will get a weeklong training on how to build apps on azure (equivilant to azure level 1 certificate). You will also get invited to these pretty cool speaking events where they bring in people who have had TED-talks to discuss your transition.

> If you are a new grad in Microsoft working on most products you will get a weeklong training on how to build apps on azure (equivilant to azure level 1 certificate)

Do you actually get a certificate? That would be equivalent(and would actually be a good idea).

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#84

Post by rahimnathwani »

game_the0ry wrote: post #23

I agree with the author's point about using popular tech stacks to alleviate the ramp-up time for new hire productivity, but that is not the optimal solution. The optimal solution is for management to not let high-productivity talent from leaving - increase their comp to whatever offers they might get in the open market. That's how labor economic works - it's a market. Investment bank and management consulting figure…

"The optimal solution is for management to not let high-productivity talent from leaving - increase their comp to whatever offers they might get in the open market."

That might result in the engineer being paid more than the value of their contribution at their current employer.

Many things could cause this, e.g.

- the new employer is much more productive, can make better use of the engineer, and so can afford to pay more and still make money

- the new employer over-estimates engineer's skill level and likely contribution

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#85

Post by oarabbus_ »

purple_ferret wrote: post #38
paulgb wrote: post #3

> never underestimate the amount of money the FAANGs have to poach your talent. I really wish we'd stop using the word "poach". It's a loaded word with negative connotations, but what it really means here is "offer someone a better situation than you offered them". Employees have agency, they aren't wild elephants who need your "protection" from "predators" who just want to pay them more.

> but what it really means here is "offer someone a better situation than you offered them". Some people would similarly have a problem with claiming a higher salary equals a 'better situation'

Who?

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#86

Post by JPKab »

paulgb wrote: post #3

> never underestimate the amount of money the FAANGs have to poach your talent. I really wish we'd stop using the word "poach". It's a loaded word with negative connotations, but what it really means here is "offer someone a better situation than you offered them". Employees have agency, they aren't wild elephants who need your "protection" from "predators" who just want to pay them more.

The thing that hits me is the "$500k+/year in the valley".

Is this really a thing? Am I a giant dumbass for staying in Colorado? Even factoring in my stock grants, I'm nowhere close to that number.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#87

Post by outworlder »

godzillabrennus wrote: post #44
game_the0ry wrote: post #23

I agree with the author's point about using popular tech stacks to alleviate the ramp-up time for new hire productivity, but that is not the optimal solution. The optimal solution is for management to not let high-productivity talent from leaving - increase their comp to whatever offers they might get in the open market. That's how labor economic works - it's a market. Investment bank and management consulting figure…

Only failing companies in 2020 view their engineers as easily replaceable. That said, there are a lot of failing companies these days thanks to cheap and readily available debt.

> Only failing companies in 2020 view their engineers as easily replaceable.

Indeed.

You should engineer your systems as if everyone is replaceable (including yourself) but treat your employees as if they aren't (even though they are, just not _easily_).

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#88

Post by trhway »

thelean12 wrote: post #35
roland35 wrote: post #11

FAANG companies can certainly offer more money, but there are lots of things other companies can offer too (besides Ruby on Rails apparently). - ownership of the product and process - less red tape and politics - good work life balance - location other than Silicon Valley - boss who pays attention to engineer needs and wants Money is a huge factor but it isn't the only one!

I feel like people try to tell themselves this, but money is BY FAR the most important factor. And FAANGs pay a ton. Maybe this can be true if you're going from like $250k to $270k from FAANG to FAANG. But most of the time we're talking about something like $180k to $250k when getting poached to a FAANG. It would take a huge amount of perks or otherwise to make that gap worth it. (Of course this isn't true for everyo…

>But most of the time we're talking about something like $180k to $250k when getting poached to a FAANG

In the last couple years we're talking 2-3x from our BigCo's $150-250K. Getting such an increase people do feel like being hit by a bus - at least my friend looked that way for a few days after getting such 3x offer couple years ago from a FAANG style company :) Our managers don't even try to match - during the 2019 not FAANGs gave 2x, 2x and 1.5x (that one still got lucky as his RSUs value almost doubled because of acquisition right before his first year cliff) to the other 3 acquaintances, and beginning of this year a teammate got 2x from Apple after concurrents with another FAANG and couple non-FAANGs.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#89

Post by odyssey7 »

rl1987 wrote: post #19

Realistically speaking, isn't getting hired by Netflix et. al. a practical impossibility for 99+ % of software developers?

Back-of-the-envelope.

In 2014, Google had around 28,500 software developers. [1]

In 2016, it was estimated that the US had around 3.87 million professional software developers. [2]

So around that time, about 0.75% of all software developers in the US worked for Google alone. If your organization employs a few dozen skilled developers, there is a very strong chance that some of them could find a placement within FAANG. It's likely that these are the engineers that you rely on the most.

[1] https://www.quora.com/How-many-software-engineers-does-Googl...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_engineering_demograph...

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#90

Post by youeseh »

LordKano wrote: post #62
paulgb wrote: post #3

> never underestimate the amount of money the FAANGs have to poach your talent. I really wish we'd stop using the word "poach". It's a loaded word with negative connotations, but what it really means here is "offer someone a better situation than you offered them". Employees have agency, they aren't wild elephants who need your "protection" from "predators" who just want to pay them more.

Approximately 10 years ago, I was really unhappy with my work situation and was checking job postings. I found one that sounded right up my alley and I reached out to the agency that posted it. They told me that because I was working for another one of their clients, they wouldn't submit me for the job because they felt it was unethical. I responded that I wasn't owned by my employer and just as they were free to let…

FWIW, that is not how all agencies operate, unless they are under a contractual obligation.

For example, some agencies only limit themselves to not representing a previously placed candidate if they are still the role where they were placed by the agency. Outside of that, if a candidate wants to move from one client company to another, the agency may even act as a catalyst, especially if the candidate would be a great fit for the new role.

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