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The Clean Network – United States Department of State

state.gov

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Re: The Clean Network – United States Department of State

#331

Post by ENOTTY »

novok wrote: post #128
waihtis wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Furthermore, State is a decade or more behind the game. It is my impression that modern companies that care about security assume that all networks are compromised and act accordingly. Unfortunately far from true. There's a small percentage who have the resource to run this kind of ops. Don't look at FAANG on how security is in companies, they're outliers by far.

FANMAG is also the infrastructure that most of these companies are running on, so in a way, they are delivering it bit by bit to most companies. Especially as companies move from doing things like 'running their own exchange server' to 'buying a microsoft 365 subscription'. Chromebook + google apps is what most companies need, and really good security for the most part.

Eh, configuring SaaS stuff to be secure is not easy either.

Re: The Clean Network – United States Department of State

#332

Post by chrisco255 »

smithza wrote: post #256
ISL wrote: post #80

I have the same feeling about this as I did the announcement of the "Department of Homeland Security". The name sounded Soviet in origin, with only the exchange of "Homeland" in place of "Motherland". It reminded me of things my family had taught me didn't happen in the United States. "We call on all freedom-loving nations and companies to join the Clean Network." is a sentence straight out of an authoritarian playbo…

Just read in the news this morning that the intelligence community acknowledges China has a steak in Biden being put in the Oval Office and Russia has a steak in Trump staying put. Interesting that Russia's name was not in this piece anywhere...

Why would it be? There are no plausible 5G competitors coming from Russia. There are very few (if any) electronics manufactured in Russia and imported to the U.S.

Re: The Clean Network – United States Department of State

#333

Post by chrisco255 »

nabla9 wrote: post #283
ISL wrote: post #80

I have the same feeling about this as I did the announcement of the "Department of Homeland Security". The name sounded Soviet in origin, with only the exchange of "Homeland" in place of "Motherland". It reminded me of things my family had taught me didn't happen in the United States. "We call on all freedom-loving nations and companies to join the Clean Network." is a sentence straight out of an authoritarian playbo…

Washington Talk; Prickly Roots of 'Homeland Security' https://www.nytimes.com/2002/08/31/us/washington-talk-prickl... >''People find it a little quaint, a little forced,'' said Deborah Tannen, a linguistics professor at Georgetown University and author of ''You Just Don't Understand'' (William Morrow, 1990). >At worst, Ms. Tannen said, the phrase is associated with sinister historical precedents. >''There is one part…

Yes, let's find the six degrees of Nazism in every single topic. I'm sure we can connect Kevin Bacon to Hitler while we're at it.

Re: The Clean Network – United States Department of State

#334

Post by csb6 »

glenstein wrote: post #270
csb6 wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is not a democracy for the vast majority of Americans. It is an oligarchy posing as a democracy.

It's possible to criticize the national security state in the U.S. while not losing sight of the fact that China is run by an authoritarian government guilty of abuses at a completely different order of magnitude. That difference is important, because a lot of people even in this thread seem to completely lose sight of it.

I said nothing about China in my comment. All I said is that it is disingenuous and incorrect to call the U.S. a “liberal democracy” and use that to explain away the reasons that our surveillance state is “better” than theirs. I made no judgment about the comparison itself.

Re: The Clean Network – United States Department of State

#335

Post by csb6 »

roca wrote: post #319
csb6 wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is not a democracy for the vast majority of Americans. It is an oligarchy posing as a democracy.

Call it what you like, but the reality is that the USA is so much more free at every level of society than China under the CCP, and that's even ignoring the horrors of Xinjiang and Tibet. Even in this much-derided "Clean Network" document there is not a word about the sort of content-based censorship that is ubiquitous in China.

I said nothing about China in my comment. All I said is that it is disingenuous and incorrect to call the U.S. a “liberal democracy” and use that to explain away the reasons that our surveillance state is “better” than theirs. I made no judgment about the comparison itself. Clinging to the judgment that we are the least worst, or “clothespin”, surveillance state, seems pretty grim to me.

Re: The Clean Network – United States Department of State

#336

Post by burmask »

Angostura wrote: post #232
A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. It is ridiculous how closely the language sounds to that of a dictatorial regime. The language is just so.. cringy. When I first read, I genuinely could not believe it was not onion or some weird caricature.

The first sentence really stood out to me... "The Clean Network program is the Trump Administration’s comprehensive approach to..." Isn't that a bit odd? Surely these things would be worded as 'is the United States Government approach..' It almost smacks of 'errr, don't blame us guys, it wasn't our idea. Love the low res images of the logos too.

No doubt - Start by cleaning the image.

Re: The Clean Network – United States Department of State

#337

Post by dane-pgp »

bmitc wrote: post #248

> We call on all freedom-loving nations and companies to join the Clean Network. This makes me physically sick. The only freedom you have in the U.S. is being poor, controlled, and oh yea, you can Tweet whatever you want. While the U.S., both citizens and the government, have pointed fingers at Russia, China, and , we've been under the assault of propaganda and control for decades, at increasing rates, all under the…

> oh yea, you can Tweet whatever you want.

I don't want to be the bearer of bad news, but:

https://www.cracked.com/article_25266_6-totally-stupid-thing...

Re: The Clean Network – United States Department of State

#338

Post by dane-pgp »

codemonkey-zeta wrote: post #115
GaryNumanVevo wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's fairly simple. Did the app you download have anti-American sentiment posted on it? Banned. It could have been Chinese propaganda after all. Same goes for video hosting, web hosting, etc.

Isn't this why we have the legal system? Companies could sue the US government for that sort of thing? Or do you feel like the judicial arm of our government would not defend the rights of those companies? Or would the laws surrounding this plan be worded such that companies have no legal recourse? I still fail to understand this fear.

Would you invest in a disruptive new startup that made an app which allows individuals to communicate with end-to-end encryption, and had no restrictions on "anti-American" sentiment (meaning "anti- some particular political party" sentiment)?

The startup might win the court case, but you might lose your money before the government gives up its appeals and injunctions.

Re: The Clean Network – United States Department of State

#339

Post by alexmingoia »

1) This won’t stop or significantly mitigate hacking from China. China is perfectly capable of hacking US software on US networks.

2) China has the intellectual capacity to meet the US technologically without stealing IP. Putting pressure on them will just encourage faster technological development.

3) At this point, it seems China will continue to expand control of South China Sea, or US will go to war with China to stop them. Any middle ground is fast disappearing. Hawks in US seem to have won control of strategy.

Re: The Clean Network – United States Department of State

#340

Post by arminiusreturns »

ISL wrote: post #80

I have the same feeling about this as I did the announcement of the "Department of Homeland Security". The name sounded Soviet in origin, with only the exchange of "Homeland" in place of "Motherland". It reminded me of things my family had taught me didn't happen in the United States. "We call on all freedom-loving nations and companies to join the Clean Network." is a sentence straight out of an authoritarian playbo…

I also personally agree with Fletcher Prouty (rip) that the naming of the department of war to the department of defense falls under this same category.
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