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Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

reuters.com

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Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#351

Post by zanmat0 »

chloerei wrote: post #84

As a Chinese, I think it is reasonable to arrest a leader who violated the national security law. Think of a US media tycoon who went to China to meet with the Secretary of State, used the media to incite riots in his country, appeared on the streets of protest, and publicly called on China to intervene in the United States. What are the consequences of this? Please read more media from a different standpoint and thi…

I just want to say thank you for providing your perspective to help balance out all the uninformed China-bashing. And for taking the time to address all the points that others have brought up in their replies.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#352

Post by harry8 »

labster wrote: post #17
aww_dang wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They've claimed authority to extradite anyone (including non-Chinese citizens) under this new law.

And invoked that authority: China has pressed charges against an American citizen who lives in America for conduct that took place in the United States. https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/01/china/hong-kong-activists-arr... R.I.P Westphalian sovereignty

Julian Assange is charged by the US for conduct that did not take place in the US.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#353

Post by ferest »

thinkingemote wrote: post #292
chloerei wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A family means helping each other, of course you can choose a different career and life. But you can't attract robbers to beat and smash things at home. You think you have freedom because you know where the bottom line is. Imagine you publish a detailed crime plan. How long will the FBI come to your door?

The issue is that protest is allowed and encouraged in the west. Its actually necessary for the system. Instability is central to the west. It grows and changes with change. Those in China see this and are horrified. To them, freedom and instability equal bloodshed and violence. Any rights should be given up to ensure the safety of one's family. If you have no freedom as a child you will be happier as your mother and…

> protest is allowed and encouraged in the west

It also comes with great cost.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#354

Post by xxllhan »

Some simple logic: 1. US media is capable of being biased on certain subjects (FOX news, Trump), for more clicks, or for political reasons 2. China is a long term threat to US economy and political systems, and is generally hated by the people right now 3. Thus it's possible that what you read everyday is biased 4. Then you hate China more, then media notices that and be more biased. It's a loop leading to justified extreme actions.

Just keep this possibility in mind

As a Chinese living in the US, reading China related news/comments is like watching FOX, or Trump watching CNN. Maybe I am also biased, but that's my feeling.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#355

Post by ailun »

UIZealot wrote: post #328
ailun wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m very sure. Do you actually have an issue with the substance of what I said? Obviously I’m not going to link you to all my online accounts to prove to you whether I’ve sufficiently criticized the US. I’m going to very briefly reply to your second point, because I don’t think you’re discussing in good faith. Whether or not the US does something wrong is irrelevant to the rightness or wrongness of China’s actions, b…

I'm glad you are so sure. Maybe the new national security law of HK is less than the Platonic ideal of a perfect law. Is it also fair to say that you think the National Security Law of the US is bad too? Since chloerei stated that it "is broader and stricter than China" and you didn't refute it. Can you elaborate on that? Since it's your own country and you should be much better informed to comment on that than on th…

There is no law named "National Security Law" in the United States, he was just using it as a poor deflection, as you know. Once he linked a specific law, I elaborated. You can check it out if you actually care.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#356

Post by ailun »

chloerei wrote: post #332
ailun wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's great, you linked something specific to talk about. Interestingly, the actual application of that law demonstrates how rights are protected in the US. You may know that Chairman Xi thinks there should never be an independent judiciary in China. So the vague national security law there ends up as nothing but a tool of the state to arrest those it doesn't like. In the US, the Supreme Court balances that law agai…

We live in different legal systems. Sometimes I also have a lot of questions about the laws of the United States, because Trump has signed a lot of executive orders to ban Huawei and TikTok, without going through the court or Congress, and they are effective. Back to Hong Kong, the Hong Kong National Security Law is not retroactive: > Article 39 This Law shall apply to acts committed after its entry into force for th…

Well, I live in China, so technically we don't. You can say we were born under different legal systems. In China, law is often a tool to punish those the state doesn't like.

Trump hasn't banned TikTok yet, and the powers he is trying to use for that were given to him by Congress. It hasn't gone through courts yet, though, so you need to read more about it before making claims. This seems to be a pattern with you.

They claim it is not retroactive - but I highly doubt it. And you yourself said he was being punished for things that happened before it was in place.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#357

Post by tedhuang »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #338
tedhuang wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'pro-democracy' people are strongly associated with misinformation in China. That's why they have very few support and never accomplish anything all these years.

Misinformation? As defined by the CCP, or actual, objectively verifiable falsehoods?

one of their lies is the crash of Three Gorges Dam, the 'pro-democracy' media repetitively report this every year..millions dead..blah blah. But it never happened, the dam is solid in good shape. the 'pro-democracy' movement is a complete failure in China and will continue to fail if they continue to behave like losers

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#358

Post by dogma1138 »

akiselev wrote: post #193
throwaway77643 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the 1920s, I don’t think any person could have imagined the progress in Civil Rights that would occur in America. And yet it happened. From racist Jim Crow laws to Gay Rights, the progress made in 100 years is astonishing. Give the PRC 100 years and who knows how it might change.

> In the 1920s, I don’t think any person could have imagined the progress in Civil Rights that would occur in America. No one imagined it in the 1920s because they had already imagined it in the 1860s but got Jim Crow instead. Those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Australia had a ban on non-white immigrants till 1955, civil rights weren’t a US only issue.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#359

Post by echaozh »

thinkingemote wrote: post #251
chloerei wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time we discuss China's issues, some people always raise Xinjiang. The evidence presented was nothing more than the testimony of a few people and photos of unknown time and place. Chinese people who know technology can read these reports, and I can say that most of them will not believe them. Because the CCP has always promoted that 56 ethnic groups are one family. If these things happen, they will spread local…

One big family. But what if you don't want to be in the family? In the west we have that freedom to be different. We also have the freedom to say the equivalent of Bush did 9/11 : on June 4 1989 the CCP massacred thousands. Now the point of one big family is that the stability of the family, keeping everything going together peacefully means you don't rock the boat, you have to not speak out about how your uncle is a…

What if you don't want to be in a Western family? Ask the southerners in the American Civil War. They wanted out, and see what they got.

I can understand the need of diversity in a country, diversity of races, opinions, religions, etc. We want diversity too, so long as it is within our country. If by being Muslim means you want out of the country, is it for or against diversity on your part?

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#360

Post by echaozh »

mindfulhack wrote: post #256
thinkingemote wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One big family. But what if you don't want to be in the family? In the west we have that freedom to be different. We also have the freedom to say the equivalent of Bush did 9/11 : on June 4 1989 the CCP massacred thousands. Now the point of one big family is that the stability of the family, keeping everything going together peacefully means you don't rock the boat, you have to not speak out about how your uncle is a…

Yes, diversity is crucial for the survival of our species. The more I learn and think about all things, I'm seeing it's linked to genetic diversity, and many other physical health issues. Diversity is hard to swallow, given our tribalistic nature, but we have no choice but to foster and protect it, now that we're hyper globalised. China's action to standardise and promote monoculture is a big failure that will eventu…

It's hard to understand calling China to promote monoculture while the West wants Western democracy everywhere in the world. Sure, you don't recognize our way as democracy, but it doesn't stop us from doing so.

Xinjiang has more mosques than the whole United States. It's hypocritical to call China anti-muslim. At least we don't forbid muslims to enter our country. And we haven't ever bombarded their homelands.

What we're doing to the Uygurs is to help them earn more and lead a better life. Many Uygurs migrated to other provinces and opened up noodle shops. Those back at home may get along with the old ways, but the old ways don't have computers or other modernized tools and entertainments. And we want to help them understand why it is good to treat their women equally, and why it is good to live peacefully with atheists.

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