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Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

reuters.com

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Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#291

Post by pas »

eie7eu3hrruur wrote: post #259
toxik wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But how high is the ceiling? What are you allowed to express, even though it’s controversial? Westerners all know that the ability to criticize those above you is the only check valve in the system, what drives our society to fix its actual, true problems. Not the problems that the governing elite recognizes. Riots are an expression, and they were in Hong Kong too. But the CCP did not listen.

This is a very rosy presentation of westerners that I'd go so far as to say is a lie that western people tell themselves. Where is the protection for critics of progressivism when they lose their jobs in the US for example? Where is the outcry when Europeans advocating collecting racial information during crimes get blanketly labeled racist for something that's standard practice across the world? The west has rapidly…

"Critics of progressivism", you mean bigoted homophobes/xenophobes/racists/white-supremacists?

The other critics are themselves also progressives, and they do voice their concerns, eg Steven Pinker.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#292

Post by thinkingemote »

chloerei wrote: post #270
thinkingemote wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One big family. But what if you don't want to be in the family? In the west we have that freedom to be different. We also have the freedom to say the equivalent of Bush did 9/11 : on June 4 1989 the CCP massacred thousands. Now the point of one big family is that the stability of the family, keeping everything going together peacefully means you don't rock the boat, you have to not speak out about how your uncle is a…

A family means helping each other, of course you can choose a different career and life. But you can't attract robbers to beat and smash things at home. You think you have freedom because you know where the bottom line is. Imagine you publish a detailed crime plan. How long will the FBI come to your door?

The issue is that protest is allowed and encouraged in the west. Its actually necessary for the system. Instability is central to the west. It grows and changes with change.

Those in China see this and are horrified. To them, freedom and instability equal bloodshed and violence. Any rights should be given up to ensure the safety of one's family. If you have no freedom as a child you will be happier as your mother and father will look over you. teenage rebellion is also not encouraged culturally for example.

It's interesting to understand the CCP mind set. It explains the almost non sensical criticism of "freedoms" often heard. As most westerner don't understand China, similarly most mainland Chinese don't understand the west.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#293

Post by tomp »

Kbelicius wrote: post #283
tomp wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where did you read this propaganda that you're parroting here? In the past few decades, the global wealth inequality has decreased significantly (under the leadership of the "US empire" nevertheless). China isn't communist, it's just a dictatorship. Very capitalist. Huge inequality as well, growing faster than the West and approaching US wealth inequality. I can't see how there would be less inequality under the rule…

> In the past few decades, the global wealth inequality has decreased significantly I'm guessing that you are thinking about the number of people that have risen from poverty (lead by China, not US) because I could not find one source that is talking about decreased global wealth inequality. In fact, every single source that I could find on a short notice is talking about the rise of global wealth inequality in the l…

https://ourworldindata.org/global-economic-inequality#global...

> Global income inequality increased for 2 centuries and is now falling

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#294

Post by baryphonic »

ardy42 wrote: post #160
dqpb wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does force sterilizing of Uighurs fit into a common destiny?

>> Xi Jinping and the CCP’s official goal is for the Chinese people and everyone else to have a common destiny. >> Interpret these how you wish, because they are interpreting these how they wish. > How does force sterilizing of Uighurs fit into a common destiny? I believe the "common destiny" the GP was referring to is living under the control of the CCP.

Or everyone non-Han being enslaved by the CCP or exterminated by it.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#295

Post by fakedang »

88840-8855 wrote: post #127
breitling wrote: post #6

This is crazy. First the Muslim concentration camps, now this. Why won't the Western world impose any serious sanctions against China? We have invaded others countries for less

Let's dont forget that the US invasions of the Middle East have a significant contribution to the camps in China.

Uh how? Middle Eastern refugees went the other way to Europe, not to China.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#296

Post by baryphonic »

rorykoehler wrote: post #53
baryphonic wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree with any of this at all; in fact I'd piggy back and go further: the Chinese Communist Party is increasingly a totalitarian regime. Whereas Vladimir Putin and the Russian oligarchs are mostly interested in preserving their power and wealth, and threatening/assaulting/murdering the people who get in the way, the Chinese Communist Party regime seems to have much broader goals. From the Falun Gong persec…

Chinese citizens should be very vocal against the CCP if they are brave enough. Telling people to be quiet because they are being silenced is a bit backward.

I want to be clear: I'd love to hear as many Chinese voices as possible criticizing this evil menace. But I also think prudence makes sense. I fully support: Chinese citizens criticizing the regime in private to non-Chinese; Chinese citizens telling the truth about the regime anonymously; or Chinese citizens speaking out but taking serious precautions for their personal and their families' health and safety. I also strongly support anyone who has the courage to visibly and publicly take a stand in a way where they are silenced by the regime, but only insofar as the stunt is recognizable publicly and the person does this with full awareness of the risks.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#297

Post by zozin »

knzhou wrote: post #92
zozin wrote: post #42

The thought of living in a China-centric world during the twilight of my life on Earth (2050+) makes my hair stand on end. I do not want to be treated as a second class human because of the color of my skin or my ethnicity. I do not want to lose business and professional opportunities because I am not Han. I do not want to live in a world where freedom of speech and expression are long lost memories, where even the r…

This is the kind of comment that makes me know there's no hope for HN. The color of your skin has bought you a lot. When you were a kid, my parents were making a dollar a day. When your parents were kids, my grandparents were facing famine. Now, finally, for the first time in all of modern history, a large group of non-white people has escaped crushing poverty. They're not rich by any means. You'd still be richer tha…

I am an immigrant. Yes I am white, but my grandparents faced famine at the hands of Communism and my parents were poor, just like yours. If you go further back in my family history I'm sure you'd find generation after generation of serfs. If it wasn't for America I probably wouldn't be posting on HN. If it wasn't for America I probably wouldn't be as educated and as wealthy as I am. My comment was directed at the principles that the CCP seems to embody, and not Chinese people themselves. The fact remains that if China led a unipolar world during my upbringing, my rise from son of a simple farmer would likely not have been possible because of the color of my skin/ethnicity. That is the problem I have with the Chinese system.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#298

Post by _nckn »

themgt wrote: post #91

I highly recommend doing some reading about what Xi and the CCP are really thinking and planning. It's a fascinating situation, and I'm not sure we or even they precisely know. But there has been a feel of a very dark turn overall in recent years, where perhaps an alignment between an appearance of widespread and growing failures of the US-led world order combined with China's unabated growing power, has cemented in…

EDIT: For the downvoters, I'd appreciate it if you come with replies. I wrote this reply like this expecting replies (with downvotes of course).

I'm trying to self reflect a lot here. Forgive my provoking thoughts.

Looking at even the US itself crumbles in today's misinformation world. I now have doubts in Democracy like Socrates did. If not for HK, Taiwan, and Uyghur Muslims, I'd consider Xi's dictatorship a good modern day role dictatorship.

What are the alternatives? Democracy has failed us in today's increasingly complex society, with free flow of misinformation everywhere. Education doesn't fix the problem. Critical thinking is hard, thinking is hard. Free education and free information doesn't fix the problem because people believe what they want to believe.

As long as a country has stability and peace and the prosperity of its citizens, then shouldn't it be in that country's best interest to crush any opposition by any means necessary, including committing actions that are provoking UN or violating Geneva Convention left and right. Won't good (from the perspective of its citizens) dictatorship is better than crumbling Democracy?

But power corrupts. Eventually it will. And the dictators will be overthrown, pulling the pendulum in the other direction.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#299

Post by christiansakai »

Johnjonjoan wrote: post #97
f2000 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Countries with nukes and 2M+ man armies? Besides, too much is at stake by our corporate overlords to put military action or sanctions on the table. Sadly, Hong Kongers need to steel themselves for some tough struggle sessions.

Airplanes are so expensive and non survivable these days that IMO the next war will be a massive air battle with whoever loses unable to replenish and therefore forced to surrender or be picked apart from the air or escalate. America currently has 10x the aircraft China has and the logistics to back them up (China is catching up). A 2m man army will likely be irrelevant except for fighting regionally, if their enemy…

Looking from a defense perspective. Won't an anti aircraft system be effective here? It is cheaper to build an anti aircraft system that can be deployed everywhere vs the aircraft itself.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#300

Post by thelightthat »

Nasrudith wrote: post #287
88840-8855 wrote: post #122

This is going to be very unpopular. History repeats itself. Just 30 years ago the Soviet Union was dissolved. If you study this dissolution process, you see that demonstrations and the ambition to sovereignty was nothing new in the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact, but in comparison to the 50s, 60s and 70s, Gorbachev did not use military force to prevent countries from splitting off. If China lets HK go independent,…

The economic collapse seems like a misattributiation of the USSR's collapse's cause. The collapse was because the economy turned out to be a lie fundamentally. Now China has certainly been cooking the hell out of the books but given the other sides of transactions with the outside world we have an idea of the of the real as quite large.

Do you have any sources/articles about the true size of China's economy?
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