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Apple’s ad network gets ‘preferential access to users’ data’ vs Facebook, Google

forbes.com

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Re: Apple’s ad network gets ‘preferential access to users’ data’ vs Facebook, Google

#31

Post by spanhandler »

wutbrodo wrote: post #3

I had a very brief stint working on mobile ads in 2011, so I have some vague familiarity with the sausage factory and its implications for user privacy on mobile devices, and this is par for the course for Apple. A big part of their marketing strategy is duping people into thinking they're pro-user, when they're one of the most aggressively anti-user companies I can think of. What's really impressive is how successfu…

I wish anyone, anyone else would make competing operating systems & accompanying software suites that performed as well and required as little unproductive horseshit to keep working properly, and in fact worked as hard to make my life easier through useful integrations (little things, like auto-fill auth code from a text message—god, so nice).

I don't like them but any time I use something else I feel like I've made a big mistake, saving a little money at the cost of a ton of time. I didn't realize how much time I burned screwing with bad operating systems until I became a Mac, and later iOS, user. Please, someone compete with them. Anyone. Please. I don't want to be stuck with only one option for non-shit computing.

[EDIT] example: my dad gets a Chromebook. Great, these things are mostly aimed at non-tech folks, kids, and old people. And it's a relatively "small" OS in terms of what it does. Surely when I go to set it up for him I'll find it has accessibility features a least close to the quality of Mac and iOS. LOL nope, they suck. Seriously, I'm begging anyone out there who wants to try to compete with Apple, do it. Please. No-one is.

Re: Apple’s ad network gets ‘preferential access to users’ data’ vs Facebook, Google

#32

Post by xoa »

sukilot wrote: post #13
xoa wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Duh? What's up with all the recent assertions that there is any sort of trust equivalency for 3rd parties vs Apple within the iOS ecosystem? Apple is part of the core trust foundation for any iOS user. They are present in the entire freaking stack, from the SoC everything runs on up. As a technical matter, they can do absolutely anything they want. By definition if you run iOS you trust Apple's stuff, from the hardwa…

Apple could offer a single consent dialog for a bucket of third parties, like they do for all their internal organizations. To say otherwise is to say that just because Apple has vendor lock-in they deserve trust.

>To say otherwise is to say that just because Apple has vendor lock-in they deserve trust.

Incorrect, the whole point is that Apple doesn't have vendor lock-in. As I said there are great non-Apple options for every aspect of our lives (vastly better in many cases). If you choose to buy into Apple's platform however, then it's not a matter of "deserve", you DO trust them by definition. You have made a conscious choice to buy from a massively vertically integrated corporation that exerts significant hardware backed cryptographic control over the software ecosystem. That's not a bug, that's a feature for a lot of people, but it's one that depends entirely on (a specific, limited context sort of) trust in Apple.

Re: Apple’s ad network gets ‘preferential access to users’ data’ vs Facebook, Google

#33

Post by banachtarski »

sjroot wrote: post #5
wutbrodo wrote: post #3

I had a very brief stint working on mobile ads in 2011, so I have some vague familiarity with the sausage factory and its implications for user privacy on mobile devices, and this is par for the course for Apple. A big part of their marketing strategy is duping people into thinking they're pro-user, when they're one of the most aggressively anti-user companies I can think of. What's really impressive is how successfu…

Apple may be certainly far from perfect when it comes to favoring their own software, but to say the company as a whole is aggressively "anti-user" is just hogwash. Updates they have made to Safari, the App Store, and iOS generally have made millions of people more conscious of how applications they use every day consume and interact with their personal information. They've inspired other companies like Google to fol…

This is evidence of the reality distortion field.

It's like when they made the argument why Netflix/Spotify should pay them 30% of the proceeds of all sales because it's good for consumers and people actually bought it.

Re: Apple’s ad network gets ‘preferential access to users’ data’ vs Facebook, Google

#34

Post by jeffbee »

xoa wrote: post #30
saagarjha wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The framework for this is called “Transparency, Consent, and Control”, and providing these options for system apps would check the box for all three of these things. Of course, you have to trust Apple to do it right, but like you said you already did that when you bought the phone. This, this isn’t about trust, but the reasons I just mentioned.

System apps are right there with every single 3rd party app in terms of control though. They have an explanation just like Apple requires in general, and you can turn off location or whatever else usage. If I go to Settings > Privacy > Location Services, "Camera" is right there with the standard indicator for that it has been used, a "While Using the App" set, and "App explanation: 'Photos and videos will be tagged w…

My complaint is not about the initial permission, it's about the thing that regularly appears in iOS to suggest that you might have changed your mind and would you like to disable location access for some app. This never pops up for Apple's apps.

There's also another way they exempt themselves, by allowing you to disable microphone for third-party apps but not offering to disable microphone access for Voice Memos, Camera, etc. On Android I can disable the microphone for any first-party app, even the Phone app which obviously needs it.

Re: Apple’s ad network gets ‘preferential access to users’ data’ vs Facebook, Google

#35

Post by thelopa »

jeffbee wrote: post #2

Apple exempts all their iOS software from their own privacy scaremongering. iOS never pops up a scary dialog warning you that Camera has accessed your location twice in the last week, even though Camera accesses your location every time you start it. There is a completely separate iOS privacy regime for Apple's own apps.

The prompt you’re thinking of only shows if the app uses location in the background. An app that has While Using the App authorization can’t get the background usage prompt. It’s not that Camera is exempted, it’s that Camera isn’t relevant.

Re: Apple’s ad network gets ‘preferential access to users’ data’ vs Facebook, Google

#36

Post by sumtechguy »

xoa wrote: post #8
jeffbee wrote: post #2

Apple exempts all their iOS software from their own privacy scaremongering. iOS never pops up a scary dialog warning you that Camera has accessed your location twice in the last week, even though Camera accesses your location every time you start it. There is a completely separate iOS privacy regime for Apple's own apps.

Duh? What's up with all the recent assertions that there is any sort of trust equivalency for 3rd parties vs Apple within the iOS ecosystem? Apple is part of the core trust foundation for any iOS user. They are present in the entire freaking stack, from the SoC everything runs on up. As a technical matter, they can do absolutely anything they want. By definition if you run iOS you trust Apple's stuff, from the hardwa…

All very true. But also 'rules for thee but not for me' really rubs people the wrong way. Eating their own dogfood would let them better understand their customers and vendors.

Re: Apple’s ad network gets ‘preferential access to users’ data’ vs Facebook, Google

#37

Post by thelopa »

jeffbee wrote: post #20
matthewmacleod wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have the same options to disable location data for the built-in Camera app that you have with any other app.

Yes, but iOS does not proactively beg you to disable location access for Apple Maps, the way it does for Google Maps even if you've been using Google Maps daily since 2007.

If you set Google Maps to While Using the App you will stop seeing the prompts you’re thinking of. Those “downgrade” prompts only apply to apps with Always. Apple Maps doesn’t support Always and so it cannot get a downgrade prompt.

Re: Apple’s ad network gets ‘preferential access to users’ data’ vs Facebook, Google

#38

Post by jeffbee »

thelopa wrote: post #37
jeffbee wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but iOS does not proactively beg you to disable location access for Apple Maps, the way it does for Google Maps even if you've been using Google Maps daily since 2007.

If you set Google Maps to While Using the App you will stop seeing the prompts you’re thinking of. Those “downgrade” prompts only apply to apps with Always. Apple Maps doesn’t support Always and so it cannot get a downgrade prompt.

This is only because Apple draws a boundary around their stuff that says "Maps" only uses location when it's running, but "Significant Locations" and "Routing & Traffic" and "Improve Maps" are system services.

Re: Apple’s ad network gets ‘preferential access to users’ data’ vs Facebook, Google

#39

Post by xbmcuser »

acdha wrote: post #21
save_ferris wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't you think it's at least a little hypocritical that they don't extend the same privacy configuration options to their apps that they mandate for 3rd party apps? Sure, I generally trust Apple more than a random 3rd party developer, but the fact that Apple doesn't trust me to set my own privacy configuration for the camera makes me trust them less.

Again, how large is the population of people who don't trust Apple's apps not to exfiltrate their data but do trust Apple's OS to enforce restrictions on the apps built-in to the OS? If, for example, you don't trust Camera with your location data you also need to be concerned about having cellular networking enabled and making sure that Apple's WiFi interface, crash report, software updates, Music/Books/TV, etc. don'…

Apple has put its servers in china for chinese users so that the chinese government can access the data. Now the data it collects legally they have to give to chinese government if asked. I am not saying they are giving data to chinese government that rather that they are collecting data which can get into the hands of government so they should let the user control what data they are comfortable with sharing.

Re: Apple’s ad network gets ‘preferential access to users’ data’ vs Facebook, Google

#40

Post by shadowgovt »

jeffbee wrote: post #2

Apple exempts all their iOS software from their own privacy scaremongering. iOS never pops up a scary dialog warning you that Camera has accessed your location twice in the last week, even though Camera accesses your location every time you start it. There is a completely separate iOS privacy regime for Apple's own apps.

Of course they do, why wouldn't they?

You bought Apple hardware; it can be safely assumed you trust Apple the company, right? (insert knowing head-tilt here ;) )

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