Apple’s ad network gets ‘preferential access to users’ data’ vs Facebook, Google
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Re: Apple’s ad network gets ‘preferential access to users’ data’ vs Facebook, Google
#2Apple exempts all their iOS software from their own privacy scaremongering. iOS never pops up a scary dialog warning you that Camera has accessed your location twice in the last week, even though Camera accesses your location every time you start it. There is a completely separate iOS privacy regime for Apple's own apps.
Re: Apple’s ad network gets ‘preferential access to users’ data’ vs Facebook, Google
#3I had a very brief stint working on mobile ads in 2011, so I have some vague familiarity with the sausage factory and its implications for user privacy on mobile devices, and this is par for the course for Apple. A big part of their marketing strategy is duping people into thinking they're pro-user, when they're one of the most aggressively anti-user companies I can think of. What's really impressive is how successful the reality distortion field has been in nominally technical fora (HN included, though it's gotten much better in the last few years).
Re: Apple’s ad network gets ‘preferential access to users’ data’ vs Facebook, Google
#4This has been Apple’s iPhone playbook for a decade. Force other companies to use their frameworks, so they can make money out of it.
Privacy is just an amazing excuse to take it even further. And in Apple’s case privacy means available and controlled by Apple.
Re: Apple’s ad network gets ‘preferential access to users’ data’ vs Facebook, Google
#5I had a very brief stint working on mobile ads in 2011, so I have some vague familiarity with the sausage factory and its implications for user privacy on mobile devices, and this is par for the course for Apple. A big part of their marketing strategy is duping people into thinking they're pro-user, when they're one of the most aggressively anti-user companies I can think of. What's really impressive is how successfu…
Apple may be certainly far from perfect when it comes to favoring their own software, but to say the company as a whole is aggressively "anti-user" is just hogwash.
Updates they have made to Safari, the App Store, and iOS generally have made millions of people more conscious of how applications they use every day consume and interact with their personal information. They've inspired other companies like Google to follow suit, and are having a huge impact on the targeted advertising industry.
Give credit where it is due.
Re: Apple’s ad network gets ‘preferential access to users’ data’ vs Facebook, Google
#6Apple exempts all their iOS software from their own privacy scaremongering. iOS never pops up a scary dialog warning you that Camera has accessed your location twice in the last week, even though Camera accesses your location every time you start it. There is a completely separate iOS privacy regime for Apple's own apps.
The idea is that we trust Apple already by using their computers. If Apple was sending that data back to their servers each time then that would ruin their reputation, but there are no such guarantees for third-party applications. Yes, theoretically, Apple reviews third party code, but it is easy enough to slip something small by them.
Re: Apple’s ad network gets ‘preferential access to users’ data’ vs Facebook, Google
#7Apple exempts all their iOS software from their own privacy scaremongering. iOS never pops up a scary dialog warning you that Camera has accessed your location twice in the last week, even though Camera accesses your location every time you start it. There is a completely separate iOS privacy regime for Apple's own apps.
Scaremongering isn't the right way to describe a real, well-documented ongoing concern. We have a long history of app developers trying to monetize their user's privacy, and that also explains why your comparison is inaccurate: if you buy an iOS device you are already trusting Apple. If you don't trust Camera to do nothing more than geotag your photos, you can't use iOS at all because every mechanism which would protect your privacy is built by the same company.
What the privacy measures are doing is giving the user the ability to review requests for access to your personal data by parties you aren't already trusting by virtue of owning the device.
Re: Apple’s ad network gets ‘preferential access to users’ data’ vs Facebook, Google
#8Apple exempts all their iOS software from their own privacy scaremongering. iOS never pops up a scary dialog warning you that Camera has accessed your location twice in the last week, even though Camera accesses your location every time you start it. There is a completely separate iOS privacy regime for Apple's own apps.
Duh? What's up with all the recent assertions that there is any sort of trust equivalency for 3rd parties vs Apple within the iOS ecosystem? Apple is part of the core trust foundation for any iOS user. They are present in the entire freaking stack, from the SoC everything runs on up. As a technical matter, they can do absolutely anything they want. By definition if you run iOS you trust Apple's stuff, from the hardware to software. If you don't, you shouldn't be running iOS. There is absolutely a "completely separate privacy regime" for Apple on Apple platforms, and it's not "Apple's own apps" it's "Apple's own processor and microcode and firmware and other chips and cryptographic keys and operating system ...and apps".
For human facing privacy and security information overload is a genuinely huge issue. What value do you assert exists for a "scary dialog" for Camera, software from Apple? After all, for that to even mean anything you must by definition be trusting iOS, software from Apple. On the other hand it's perfectly reasonable to not have the same level of trust in 3rd parties. 3rd parties do not share the same financial relationship or incentives that Apple has with its customers. Nor the same culture, nor necessarily scrutiny or technical acumen or even controlling legal regime.
You certainly do not need to trust Apple at all in general, you can run Linux, the BSDs, Windows, ChromeOS, Android or (happily!) various improving Linux phones that are extremely open. But if you decide to run Apple specifically, then you must indeed trust them.
Edit: Also, "fearmongering" is a ridiculous bit of bait. I mean, 2020 on HN and you're suggesting random 3rd party apps accessing camera/location/whatever is not the slightest issue? Ok.
Re: Apple’s ad network gets ‘preferential access to users’ data’ vs Facebook, Google
#9Apple exempts all their iOS software from their own privacy scaremongering. iOS never pops up a scary dialog warning you that Camera has accessed your location twice in the last week, even though Camera accesses your location every time you start it. There is a completely separate iOS privacy regime for Apple's own apps.
Well, kind of. Some apps get entitlements to prevent showing TCC popups; some don’t, like Weather. And if you look in Settings, you will find that Camera shows that it was using your location, just like other apps on your system. (FWIW: I believe that dialog is specifically for apps that use your location in the background, so Camera won’t trigger it anyhow.)
Re: Apple’s ad network gets ‘preferential access to users’ data’ vs Facebook, Google
#10Apple exempts all their iOS software from their own privacy scaremongering. iOS never pops up a scary dialog warning you that Camera has accessed your location twice in the last week, even though Camera accesses your location every time you start it. There is a completely separate iOS privacy regime for Apple's own apps.
Scaremongering isn't the right way to describe a real, well-documented ongoing concern. We have a long history of app developers trying to monetize their user's privacy, and that also explains why your comparison is inaccurate: if you buy an iOS device you are already trusting Apple. If you don't trust Camera to do nothing more than geotag your photos, you can't use iOS at all because every mechanism which would prot…
Don't you think it's at least a little hypocritical that they don't extend the same privacy configuration options to their apps that they mandate for 3rd party apps? Sure, I generally trust Apple more than a random 3rd party developer, but the fact that Apple doesn't trust me to set my own privacy configuration for the camera makes me trust them less.