Live data from Hacker News

Apple’s ad network gets ‘preferential access to users’ data’ vs Facebook, Google

forbes.com

11–20 of 78 posts

Re: Apple’s ad network gets ‘preferential access to users’ data’ vs Facebook, Google

#11
> Other advertisers and ad networks on iOS, however, need to ask permission every single time.

Is this something new? I have been using iOS for years until recently, and I don’t remember any ad network ever asking me permission for anything.

…Ah, it says that the prompts are new in iOS 14. I see.

Re: Apple’s ad network gets ‘preferential access to users’ data’ vs Facebook, Google

#12

> Other advertisers and ad networks on iOS, however, need to ask permission every single time. Is this something new? I have been using iOS for years until recently, and I don’t remember any ad network ever asking me permission for anything. …Ah, it says that the prompts are new in iOS 14. I see.

It is a new feature in iOS 14.

Re: Apple’s ad network gets ‘preferential access to users’ data’ vs Facebook, Google

#13
post #8
post #2

Apple exempts all their iOS software from their own privacy scaremongering. iOS never pops up a scary dialog warning you that Camera has accessed your location twice in the last week, even though Camera accesses your location every time you start it. There is a completely separate iOS privacy regime for Apple's own apps.

Duh? What's up with all the recent assertions that there is any sort of trust equivalency for 3rd parties vs Apple within the iOS ecosystem? Apple is part of the core trust foundation for any iOS user. They are present in the entire freaking stack, from the SoC everything runs on up. As a technical matter, they can do absolutely anything they want. By definition if you run iOS you trust Apple's stuff, from the hardwa…

Apple could offer a single consent dialog for a bucket of third parties, like they do for all their internal organizations.

To say otherwise is to say that just because Apple has vendor lock-in they deserve trust.

Re: Apple’s ad network gets ‘preferential access to users’ data’ vs Facebook, Google

#14
post #6
post #2

Apple exempts all their iOS software from their own privacy scaremongering. iOS never pops up a scary dialog warning you that Camera has accessed your location twice in the last week, even though Camera accesses your location every time you start it. There is a completely separate iOS privacy regime for Apple's own apps.

The idea is that we trust Apple already by using their computers. If Apple was sending that data back to their servers each time then that would ruin their reputation, but there are no such guarantees for third-party applications. Yes, theoretically, Apple reviews third party code, but it is easy enough to slip something small by them.

But I don't trust Apple to never make mistakes, so I want to be warned when the collect more data.

Re: Apple’s ad network gets ‘preferential access to users’ data’ vs Facebook, Google

#15
>It’s possible that this is a temporary situation. One source in the mobile marketing industry who requested anonymity said that Apple is using an “archaic” attribution engine they built years ago, and they are currently upgrading their code to comply with the new rules. The thinking is that Apple Advertising will eventually be compatible with SKAdNetwork, a framework Apple built for advertisers. SKAdNetwork enables completely privacy-safe advertising attribution, meaning that brands can know which ad campaigns worked, but they won’t have specific, granular data on which people viewed an ad, clicked an ad, or took action.

If they're going to use SKAdNetwork then they're tying their own hands as well.

Re: Apple’s ad network gets ‘preferential access to users’ data’ vs Facebook, Google

#16
post #8
post #2

Apple exempts all their iOS software from their own privacy scaremongering. iOS never pops up a scary dialog warning you that Camera has accessed your location twice in the last week, even though Camera accesses your location every time you start it. There is a completely separate iOS privacy regime for Apple's own apps.

Duh? What's up with all the recent assertions that there is any sort of trust equivalency for 3rd parties vs Apple within the iOS ecosystem? Apple is part of the core trust foundation for any iOS user. They are present in the entire freaking stack, from the SoC everything runs on up. As a technical matter, they can do absolutely anything they want. By definition if you run iOS you trust Apple's stuff, from the hardwa…

The framework for this is called “Transparency, Consent, and Control”, and providing these options for system apps would check the box for all three of these things. Of course, you have to trust Apple to do it right, but like you said you already did that when you bought the phone. This, this isn’t about trust, but the reasons I just mentioned.

Re: Apple’s ad network gets ‘preferential access to users’ data’ vs Facebook, Google

#17
post #6
post #2

Apple exempts all their iOS software from their own privacy scaremongering. iOS never pops up a scary dialog warning you that Camera has accessed your location twice in the last week, even though Camera accesses your location every time you start it. There is a completely separate iOS privacy regime for Apple's own apps.

The idea is that we trust Apple already by using their computers. If Apple was sending that data back to their servers each time then that would ruin their reputation, but there are no such guarantees for third-party applications. Yes, theoretically, Apple reviews third party code, but it is easy enough to slip something small by them.

We are not using "their computers". We are using our own computers. Apple made them.

I realize Apple likely doesn't feel the same way. I also think this is kind of an "of course Apple does that." A great many people pay money for this particular experience.

Re: Apple’s ad network gets ‘preferential access to users’ data’ vs Facebook, Google

#18
post #5
post #3

I had a very brief stint working on mobile ads in 2011, so I have some vague familiarity with the sausage factory and its implications for user privacy on mobile devices, and this is par for the course for Apple. A big part of their marketing strategy is duping people into thinking they're pro-user, when they're one of the most aggressively anti-user companies I can think of. What's really impressive is how successfu…

Apple may be certainly far from perfect when it comes to favoring their own software, but to say the company as a whole is aggressively "anti-user" is just hogwash. Updates they have made to Safari, the App Store, and iOS generally have made millions of people more conscious of how applications they use every day consume and interact with their personal information. They've inspired other companies like Google to fol…

Check into their ads data policy sometime - it's much, much, worse than the incumbents. but it's buried on the 3rd page of a PDF so they just got praise for releasing the PDF when it came out, only a few noticed

Re: Apple’s ad network gets ‘preferential access to users’ data’ vs Facebook, Google

#19
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scaremongering isn't the right way to describe a real, well-documented ongoing concern. We have a long history of app developers trying to monetize their user's privacy, and that also explains why your comparison is inaccurate: if you buy an iOS device you are already trusting Apple. If you don't trust Camera to do nothing more than geotag your photos, you can't use iOS at all because every mechanism which would prot…

Don't you think it's at least a little hypocritical that they don't extend the same privacy configuration options to their apps that they mandate for 3rd party apps? Sure, I generally trust Apple more than a random 3rd party developer, but the fact that Apple doesn't trust me to set my own privacy configuration for the camera makes me trust them less.

You have the same options to disable location data for the built-in Camera app that you have with any other app.

Re: Apple’s ad network gets ‘preferential access to users’ data’ vs Facebook, Google

#20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't you think it's at least a little hypocritical that they don't extend the same privacy configuration options to their apps that they mandate for 3rd party apps? Sure, I generally trust Apple more than a random 3rd party developer, but the fact that Apple doesn't trust me to set my own privacy configuration for the camera makes me trust them less.

You have the same options to disable location data for the built-in Camera app that you have with any other app.

Yes, but iOS does not proactively beg you to disable location access for Apple Maps, the way it does for Google Maps even if you've been using Google Maps daily since 2007.
Post reply on HN