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5G Just Got Weird

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Re: 5G Just Got Weird

#271

The idea of vehicle to vehicle communication is a bit frightening. Imagine the obscenities and insults you yell at other drivers, are now able to be communicated directly to the object of ire.

And reading this a smirk came on my face, yo tesla open a comm channel to that car.

Are we getting Star Trek comm channels?

"Tesla, hail the Hyundai behind me!"

Re: 5G Just Got Weird

#272
post #269
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In circumstances where there is such a thing as a "month's worth of data". Which is still a lot of places, but you can get truly unlimited contracts in some places now, for reasonable amounts.

I have "unlimited". In the sense that I have a daily 5GB cap, if I hit that I have to manually trigger 1GB more. But I can do so as much as I want.

I have (as far as I can tell) truly unlimited, including tethering. When we had trouble getting a fast connection to the house, for a couple of months we just hooked up my phone to the router and burned through 100GB+ per month, with not a squeak from the provider.

These deals seem to be getting more common here in the UK, and I pay around £20 per month for it.

Re: 5G Just Got Weird

#273
post #211

I hoped 5G would be like 4G but with much more speed, lower latency, and more area covered by one antenna. But it seems it won't deliver.

It's hard to deliver both higher speed and longer range, because higher frequencies don't reach as far and don't penetrate walls as well.

But what I read about 5G is that its range is comparable to wifi.

Why do they do that?

Re: 5G Just Got Weird

#274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you had no issues in rendering latency, you're overlooking the data aspect. Any open-world AR, is going to be continuously downloading and discovering new geometry, models, textures, mobile programs, as you walk around. Let's say you walk up to a restaurant. As you look at it, you see a virtual waitress outside. The you can see the menu floating there, interact with virtual food models, interact with a fully…

"Let's say you walk up to a restaurant. As you look at it, you see a virtual waitress outside. The you can see the menu floating there, interact with virtual food models, interact with a fully animated and articulated intelligent agent. This all has to load dynamically in a an "AR Web"-like environment (no way you're going to download and install an APP per local brick and mortar)." Maybe I'm just getting old, but th…

I think this has been borne out for most network technologies: the fundamental benefit is not {human doing old thing over new network} but {machine agent doing old thing for human over new network}.

But the genesis is always a bit counter-intuitive, because people don't build things for which there's no use case.

E.g. Machine agent consumable mobile services were created because people had mobile devices capable of consuming them. Nobody would have wasted time porting physical data into machine-readable format before the devices / use cases existed.

So the killer app, in this case, would be having your phone auto-filter / -alert you if for menu item(s) that match your preferences. Or create an ecosystem where menu costs are negligible, and restaurants are free to pivot to ingredients-of-the-day.

Re: 5G Just Got Weird

#275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Carmack famously quipped that "I can send an IP packet to Europe faster than I can send a pixel to the screen" [1]. For VR and AR to break through, they're going to have to be in a form factor that resembles normal glasses, and at a much higher render quality (4K+) than anything we've got now. That's almost certainly going to require rendering remotely Stadia / Xbox Cloud style, with some minimal local processing. [1…

Well, or you could render on the phone and stream to the glasses. I don’t think even 5G is low latency enough for what you’re describing—not even close. Stadia works because it’s not VR, so they have some latency headroom. For good VR (Valve Index, etc), you get around 20ms for the entire rendering chain.

Depending on bandwidth, you could probably stream an over-rendered viewport (e.g. 3D skybox) that allows for local-device-magnitude latency for critical functions (perspective change & location translation), while being backed by streaming servers (especially of the edge variety).

Re: 5G Just Got Weird

#277
post #122
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about LoRaWAN?

This is opportunistic and free for everyone to use. For a big number of use cases you need licensed spectrum to ensure some minimum standards of communication. Imagine what happens when a lot of WiFi access points are in the same small neighborhood.

LoRaWAN is protocol build for LoRa physical layer, and it is opportunistic. Because of the fact that you can't have every message ACKed makes it unreliable in my opinion (workout minimum standards).

However I've seen that there is proprietary protocol symphonylink from LinkLabs, that uses LoRa. They claim that it allows for having every frame ACKed, even bulk data uplink (OTA firmware upgrades). If so, I would tend to pick such technology for pond water telemetry.

Re: 5G Just Got Weird

#278
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, or you could render on the phone and stream to the glasses. I don’t think even 5G is low latency enough for what you’re describing—not even close. Stadia works because it’s not VR, so they have some latency headroom. For good VR (Valve Index, etc), you get around 20ms for the entire rendering chain.

Depending on bandwidth, you could probably stream an over-rendered viewport (e.g. 3D skybox) that allows for local-device-magnitude latency for critical functions (perspective change & location translation), while being backed by streaming servers (especially of the edge variety).

I suppose in the future, anything is possible—but I don't see it. You're asking the local device to do Z translations of a 3D scene when all it has is an already-rendered 2D image.

And the local device will just have a 2D image. Even within a single, local PC, multi-GPU rendering is basically dead for video games because no one has been able to get them working reliably. And that is with the full bandwidth and latency of PCIe.

Re: 5G Just Got Weird

#279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Really, how useful was a 2g (Edge) iPhone without a wifi connection? On a webpage without 80mb of javascript, it's quite useful.

At 135kbps, you're talking 18 seconds to load the average HTML webpage, which was 300k in 2007. My guess is, your memory of how speedy and useful Edge was, is like those fond nostalgia memories people had about how fast their FidoNet/WWIV BBSes loaded over 300/1200 baud.

In those old days the text would load first, and then the images slowly. It wasn't so bad. I had below-average 56k dial-up until 2002. Getting 3.0 Kbps was a high point for me.

Re: 5G Just Got Weird

#280
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you avoid bad actors in these scenarios? Sounds ripe for general havoc, targeting specific people etc

Yeah, I could see someone have button to transmit hard braking on demand for tailgaters.

That seems reasonable though. Tailgaters endanger people in front of them.
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