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Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed

nytimes.com

121–130 of 369 posts

Re: Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I feel I stand out from the crowd when I appear in my don't remember-when-I-bought Hackett blazer and Liberty shirts. Is that not an effect of marketing though? The only time i've ever felt like i've 'stood out in a crowd' is when I'm walking around in something utterly ridiculous, or filthy work clothes or something. To be honest, all the high end designer brands blend in to me and I can't be bothered to tell them…

> Is that not an effect of marketing though? Above a given level, for sure. But you can tell the difference of a $20 shirt and a $100 from a distance. I am not sure about the $100+ range. If you check the brands I mentioned, they are not overly expensive (in London, UK you can find them at 50% now, at outlets even less), yet they are considered hard-to-beat. > Because in the end, those designer clothes are pumped out…

>The fabric, maybe, but the amount of time some workpiece requires can be vastly different and might require more experienced hands. This can be especially true for tricky materials, such as leather and wool.

The thing is, for things like high quality clothes from leather and wool, I'm going to hit up a leatherworker's shop or something like the sheep wool clothes store they have in town here. Those things cost a bunch, are unknown designers or whatever but they're made locally out of high quality materials and are the kind of thing that should last a decade or more.

I'm not adverse to spending money on good expensive clothes, I'm adverse to spending money on expensive clothes where you're paying for the name of a designer.

If I'm going to drop that much money on a shirt or something, it's going to be from a local tailor or seamster. It's going to be fitted to me and it's going to be made of high quality long lasting materials. It's the kind of shirt that gets passed onto the grandkids or something.

>Yeah, if you are the emperor, you can be naked too. :)

What i've noticed is, except under very certain circumstances, most people are too worried about what they're wearing and look like, again unless you're overly ridiculous looking or something, to really notice your clothes. The exception being unless it's something they want themselves, or they're trying to find something flattering to say to a date or potential date.

>Me too. But not every decision is made on rational grounds and there is no 2nd try for first impression either. :)

First impressions are overrated. As long as you can make it to the second impression. The second impression is the one that counts. It's the one that's judged more thoughtfully and rationally, the one where your guard's down and such. This is why we have probationary periods in jobs, even for candidates with excellent first impressions and why once the honey moon faze of relationships end, problems tend to start.

Re: Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed

#123
post #5

The collapse of the fashion industry does not mean the clothing industry will collapse. People still need clothing obviously (cheap and of good quality preferably). Also, what do we consider the fashion industry exactly? Most long term clothing trends seem to be dictated by a couple of factors. Consisting of: - practicality. Jeans are good example of this. It's cheap and practical clothing that lasts a long time. - c…

> Jeans are good example of this. It's cheap and practical clothing that lasts a long time. Mainstream jeans brands seem astronomically expensive to me.

The prices rise to fit the market. People will pay for the "fashion" and brand name so the retailers sell them. You also have layers of outlets, overstock, discount retailers, thrift stores and more that take up the overflow. a

Re: Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed

#124
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The whole Apple fashion status trope is tired and has never been true. I love (and almost exclusively use) Apple products for many of the reasons you listed. But I think it's disingenuous to deny that there is an element of Apple's branding and design that is based on fashion. Exhibit A: Laptops and phones getting thinner and thinner at the expense of battery life and other features (headphone jack). Exhibit B: “A c…

There's a difference between fashionable junk and fashionable quality. The difference is what Jobs and Ive call "design". Spending extra on design isn't the eco disaster that spending on throwaway fashion is.

You're preaching to the converted. I only disagreed with the notion that there is absolutely no "fashion" component of Apple's products or branding at all. Of course there is.

Re: Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The whole premise is incorrect, so the conclusions are incorrect. The hardware is not the same, and even if it was, clearly the software makes a difference to the user. Speaking as someone who has spent a fair share of money on Apple products, It really doesn't. Apple is in the business of selling Veblen goods, and unless you are in a niche domain that requires niche software, Apple does not offer anything that mak…

The entirety of my grandparents generation being able to Facetime their grandkids all over the world since 2010 isn’t a Veblen good. My non English fluent and tech illiterate family members can browse the internet and click on all the malware links without worrying about losing personal data or ruining their device. That’s not a Veblen good either. My time doing tech support going down to zero because the solution is…

> The entirety of my grandparents generation being able to Facetime their grandkids all over the world since 2010 isn’t a Veblen good.

You are being disingenuous if you believe that Apple Facetime is the only or even dominant voice and/or video call system. WhatsApp alone has between 4 and 5 times the market share of Apple's FaceTime.

You need to come up with another explanation.

> My non English fluent and tech illiterate family members can browse the internet and click on all the malware links without worrying about losing personal data or ruining their device. That’s not a Veblen good either.

Quite frankly, that's complete bullshit. The majority of web users, whether they are computer illiterate or not, don't worry about "malware links" at all, and that concern simply doesn not register in the mind of the Facebook+Instagram+WhatsApp+Twitter crowd.

Re: Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed

#126

I read the article, then was surprised to see that the comments here are focused to much on the clothing part of the story, rather than the investment and financing parts of the story. They way VC is described in the story seems familiar to me from time spent working for Bay-area startups, and I think the critiques in the story apply in tech as well.

Well DTC is moving through a lot of non perishable industries as many do understand how much power retailers have over the manufacturer of products they sell. Just as the article mention RTVs and discounting forced upon the manufacturer grocery has been doing this for ages, even down to the point of forcing sales on a schedule, charging for end cap space or specific aisles.

One issue the fashion industry also faced is that for the last few years it really felt as if America was pulling back from celebrity worship. That is good thing and part of that means not having to keep up with the Kardashians, whether their TV show or the brands they sport. With so many in the music industry called out in #METOO; excepting one glaring genre; there was pull back there as well.

DTC has made it sort of in perishables through Instacart and such push many manufacturers DTC through proxies like Amazon and more.

As for sweats, as an ex who used to model when young always told me, sweats don't judge.

Re: Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed

#127
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"When the next pandemic occurs (and make no mistake, it will) and the federal government is unable to respond in a coordinated and effective fashion to protect the lives of US citizens and others, this decision by John Bolton and Donald Trump will be why." -Stephen Schwartz, on Twitter, May 2018 People knew. Also, Americans don't really have the habit of factoring in major events outside of their control into their l…

Alternatively, this was Trump's 9/11 -- the threat the President+Cabinet knew was coming and intentionally unprotected the nation from, in order to manufacture an excuse to retaliate against a tangentially connected enemy.

As conspiracy theories go, that one perhaps hits hardest because of the "banality of evil" aspect to it.

Re: Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed

#128
I’m on the pretty low to nonexistent level of fashion consciousness but fast forward 8 months to a world where maybe there is a vaccine. I can see a rebound cultural shift to going out/dressing up bringing back fashionable clothing for work and play stronger than pre-pandemic. There can easily be a cultural shift away from everyone sitting in their basement playing Animal Crossing in dirty sweatpants on Saturday night. I’m a homebody introvert but when the vaccine hits man I’m hitting the town hard!

Re: Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed

#130
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Besides being a reductio ad absurdum [0] argument that ads nothing to the discussion, I'll address your comment. Music, Art, Food, Literature and Architecture generally don't go out of style every 6 months (although companies are trying harder and harder to make it so). Nor do they have the same toxic effect on the environment (possible exception: food?) and personal self esteem as high fashion. [0] https://en.wikipe…

men fashion does not go out of style in 6 months (in 10 years, though, some trends do change). Also, Architecture, music and movies also have trends. Not a lot Brutalism projects are started today and westerns have been replaced by superhero movies. It does not make any of these projects pointless either.

There are trends in every creative field imaginable, that wasn't the point. The trends in fashion move the quickest and are completely, absolutely arbitrary. Fashion also dictates that still-functional products get discarded on a whim, unlike say, architecture.
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