Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed • Hacker News Board

Re: Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed

#111

Post by on_and_off » Sun, Aug 09, 2020, 10:03 PM UTC

mthoms wrote: post #52

pembrook wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, human “culture” and it’s “trends” are such a waste. Why can’t everybody just spend their entire lives staring at screens while dressed in tshirts, like us software engineers do? Those thousands of years of human history spent on emotionally-driven aesthetic pursuits like art, fashion, music, culinary tradition and architecture...what a waste of time and resources. If only we could be more robot-like and efficien…

Besides being a reductio ad absurdum [0] argument that ads nothing to the discussion, I'll address your comment. Music, Art, Food, Literature and Architecture generally don't go out of style every 6 months (although companies are trying harder and harder to make it so). Nor do they have the same toxic effect on the environment (possible exception: food?) and personal self esteem as high fashion. [0] https://en.wikipe…

men fashion does not go out of style in 6 months (in 10 years, though, some trends do change).

Also, Architecture, music and movies also have trends.

Not a lot Brutalism projects are started today and westerns have been replaced by superhero movies. It does not make any of these projects pointless either.

Re: Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed

#112

Post by Nasrudith » Sun, Aug 09, 2020, 10:03 PM UTC

OpossumMinister wrote: post #42

pembrook wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, human “culture” and it’s “trends” are such a waste. Why can’t everybody just spend their entire lives staring at screens while dressed in tshirts, like us software engineers do? Those thousands of years of human history spent on emotionally-driven aesthetic pursuits like art, fashion, music, culinary tradition and architecture...what a waste of time and resources. If only we could be more robot-like and efficien…

Authentic culture isn't created by a microscopically small group of rich people. If you think that criticising an exploitative industry is the the same as turning people into cultureless robots, then you're missing the entire point.

What exactly makes a culture "authenic"? The funny thing is historically I can think of plenty of counter examples. Chokers caught on because of a high status woman wanting to cover up a neck scar. For better or worse that fundamentally is part of culture. Criticizing cultural practices is as well of course.

Re: Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed

#113

Post by ghaff » Sun, Aug 09, 2020, 10:03 PM UTC

kazen44 wrote: post #68

spaetzleesser wrote: post #34

I am getting pretty tired of sweatpants but regular pants feel uncomfortable while working from home. Does anybody know some pants that are reasonably comfortable but still a little stylish?

how are normal pants uncomfortable when working from home exactly? How is your home enviroment different from work that makes this clothing uncomfortable?

Normal pants aren't necessarily uncomfortable. But, when the weather is cooler (I haven't had on a pair of long pants except for doing some yard work that required it for at least a couple months), I tend to wear tights or sweats around the house which are more comfortable.

After all, I used to wear a suit in the office. If it was well-fitted it's not that uncomfortable but doesn't mean I'm going to wear it at home.

Re: Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed

#114

Post by sukilot » Sun, Aug 09, 2020, 10:03 PM UTC

mthoms wrote: post #81

lotsofpulp wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In what other industry are people willing to pay at least more than twice, for the same hardware? The whole premise is incorrect, so the conclusions are incorrect. The hardware is not the same, and even if it was, clearly the software makes a difference to the user. The whole Apple fashion status trope is tired and has never been true. The amortized cost of an Apple device in my 15 year + experience with them has a…

>The whole Apple fashion status trope is tired and has never been true. I love (and almost exclusively use) Apple products for many of the reasons you listed. But I think it's disingenuous to deny that there is an element of Apple's branding and design that is based on fashion. Exhibit A: Laptops and phones getting thinner and thinner at the expense of battery life and other features (headphone jack). Exhibit B: “A c…

There's a difference between fashionable junk and fashionable quality. The difference is what Jobs and Ive call "design".

Spending extra on design isn't the eco disaster that spending on throwaway fashion is.

Re: Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed

#115

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Aug 09, 2020, 10:03 PM UTC

mthoms wrote: post #52

pembrook wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, human “culture” and it’s “trends” are such a waste. Why can’t everybody just spend their entire lives staring at screens while dressed in tshirts, like us software engineers do? Those thousands of years of human history spent on emotionally-driven aesthetic pursuits like art, fashion, music, culinary tradition and architecture...what a waste of time and resources. If only we could be more robot-like and efficien…

Besides being a reductio ad absurdum [0] argument that ads nothing to the discussion, I'll address your comment. Music, Art, Food, Literature and Architecture generally don't go out of style every 6 months (although companies are trying harder and harder to make it so). Nor do they have the same toxic effect on the environment (possible exception: food?) and personal self esteem as high fashion. [0] https://en.wikipe…

[deleted]

Re: Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed

#116

Post by ImaCake » Sun, Aug 09, 2020, 10:04 PM UTC

okamiueru wrote: post #33

colmvp wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't agree more. High end fashion is woefully overpriced items that predominantly largely priced on their brand rather their functionality and material. While yes, you could make the same argument with technology, I can at least get a lot of value out of premium I've paid for Apple products like my seven year old MacBook Pro or five year old iPhone. And after working briefly in the fashion industry as a developer…

To be fair, and you even bringing it up, apple products is to some degree the fashion equivalent in tech. I recently had to buy a MacOs compatible hardware for the first time in years, and I had really no idea how large the difference has become. Apple products truly are "way of life", more than anything tangible. And when choosing to upgrade components, I really couldn't believe it. It was more than twice the compar…

I recently got a macbook after having never owned an apple computer (besides a 2nd hand iphone 5). The improvements compared to windows and linux are really impressive. This device does exactly what I want it for; unix native shell support and performance without linux problems. Windows still has it's place, but Macbooks still provide real value.

Re: Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed

#117

Post by jariel » Sun, Aug 09, 2020, 10:08 PM UTC

monktastic1 wrote: post #73

jariel wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

??? Every pound of vehicle mass that you've purchased beyond what was absolutely necessary to 'get from A to B' and every unnecessary bit of travel or vacation has produced considerably more 'waste' than anything a the 'high end' of fashion. Seriously - this moral concern coming from the 'land of a billion not-necessarily-even-useful plastic gadgets'? The 'high end' of fashion is mostly art and artisanal, paid for by…

Source? As a counterpoint: www.businessinsider.com/fast-fashion-environmental-impact-pollution-emissions-waste-water-2019-10

Since when is 'fast fashion' 'high fashion'?

'Fast Fashion' is not even 'fashion' - it's literally just 'clothing'.

So yes we wear 'cheap clothing' and it has pollution effects, which are greater than 'aircraft' but not nearly as big as other industries.

And as to the premise of the article, making 'stretchy pants' is in no way more environmentally friendly than making 'more formal attire'.

Re: Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed

#118

Post by ghaff » Sun, Aug 09, 2020, 10:08 PM UTC

aries1980 wrote: post #56

grawprog wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I feel I stand out from the crowd when I appear in my don't remember-when-I-bought Hackett blazer and Liberty shirts. Is that not an effect of marketing though? The only time i've ever felt like i've 'stood out in a crowd' is when I'm walking around in something utterly ridiculous, or filthy work clothes or something. To be honest, all the high end designer brands blend in to me and I can't be bothered to tell them…

> Is that not an effect of marketing though? Above a given level, for sure. But you can tell the difference of a $20 shirt and a $100 from a distance. I am not sure about the $100+ range. If you check the brands I mentioned, they are not overly expensive (in London, UK you can find them at 50% now, at outlets even less), yet they are considered hard-to-beat. > Because in the end, those designer clothes are pumped out…

Tailoring is probably most obvious, especially if you're not really a standard size. And that's expensive even if it's only semi-custom.

I'm sure there are reasons but I'm actually a bit surprised that more customization isn't a more normal thing on the internet for a modest premium. I assume some combination of the economics and the way customization has to happen don't work in some way.

Re: Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed

#119

Post by lotsofpulp » Sun, Aug 09, 2020, 10:09 PM UTC

rumanator wrote: post #110

lotsofpulp wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In what other industry are people willing to pay at least more than twice, for the same hardware? The whole premise is incorrect, so the conclusions are incorrect. The hardware is not the same, and even if it was, clearly the software makes a difference to the user. The whole Apple fashion status trope is tired and has never been true. The amortized cost of an Apple device in my 15 year + experience with them has a…

> The whole premise is incorrect, so the conclusions are incorrect. The hardware is not the same, and even if it was, clearly the software makes a difference to the user. Speaking as someone who has spent a fair share of money on Apple products, It really doesn't. Apple is in the business of selling Veblen goods, and unless you are in a niche domain that requires niche software, Apple does not offer anything that mak…

The entirety of my grandparents generation being able to Facetime their grandkids all over the world since 2010 isn’t a Veblen good.

My non English fluent and tech illiterate family members can browse the internet and click on all the malware links without worrying about losing personal data or ruining their device. That’s not a Veblen good either.

My time doing tech support going down to zero because the solution is either power cycle the device or take it to an Apple store is not a Veblen good either.

Re: Sweatpants Forever: How the Fashion Industry Collapsed

#120

Post by ImaCake » Sun, Aug 09, 2020, 10:09 PM UTC

dredmorbius wrote: post #17

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sans-culottes

Maybe the pandemic and associated social revolutions are the endpoint of an evolution towards public acceptance of comfort clothes that begun with angry, poorly dressed, peseants in 1790's france.